The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[Hyrist]

The problem with vertical progression is that it makes old content obsolete way to fast. On top of that there is nothing special with the gear. No special traits to earn from spirit bonding the tome gear. Which leads to another thing why are the job classes so cookie cutter. Why do we not have role trees for each job like bow can either be a ranger (pure dps) or a brd? And based on the skills you choose will change your role drastically. It's crappy lazy design with nothing to really work for.

These are questions already answered before but I'll go over them.

Special chararactistics are kept out of gear because all that it contributes to is stat inflation. Everything boils down to DPS and if you create special stats then you're just adding to the factors into DPS. In a vertical progression MMO, you begin to invalidate gear before you even create it because gear with "Special Stat X" is better than the gear you created in the following patch ,because of that special stat, unless you increase the base stats to compensate on it. Then you deal with the major issue of Power Creep.

In short, special stats are a design nightmare. They do nothing more to the bottom line than complicate things, for the player and developer both. They've heard feedback regarding the desire for it and have said they'd 'consider' it. But keep in mind consider is not accept. They've carried the same speech on this since Beta. I'm not expecting it to change soon.

"Why not skill trees?" most common answer comes from both the player base and the developers in tandeum. In short, you don't have skill trees because you don't NEED skill trees. In game you are not locked down to a certain Job and each job approaches the base role differently. In this case, if you wanted to lean more on the DPS end of Ranged, you'd go Machinist. This is the trade off for the Job/Armory system. You get to pick multiple classes, as many as you want to level and gear really, but each are played optimally one way.

They don't want to complicate the roles of each Job - that goes directly against the ease-of-access approach they have for this game. We may, eventually, see something similar to a 'merit' system like they created for Final Fantasy XI, but that system was not mean to be easily exchangeable.

It's not lazy design - it was an intentional choice made to adhere to the sense of identity that comes with being a part of the Final Fantasy franchise, no only do they want to keep that identity, but they're wanting it to be easier for the new players coming in, to pick up and play.

This esoteric gear will be outdated by 3.2ish and we really gain nothing for our job other than a few boosted stats.

That will never change. That's what a vertical progression MMO means. It means you're never at the top. There's always higher to go, and the gear that does not add up to par will fall into the field of Glamour usage. If that's make or break for you, do not come back - because that's a part of this game's backbone - and you shouldn't expect it to change at this point.

[Sandpark]

I got one solution for the vertical dilemma.
Classes:
-Make them horizontal progression and cap at 1/2 the ilvl of jobs.
-Limit classes post level 30 to solo or duo with companions.
-When resigned to solo/duo, everything doesn't boil down to dps but survival as well.
-Classes get the "Special stat X gear" and jobs get vertical gear.
-Classes could have their own version of heals, dps, control, etc.
-Classes could have skill trees since they are not as homogenized as jobs.
-Classes could have skill morphs.

And all this would be possible because classes could be horizontal and jobs vertical. Why would we want classes horizontal? For any content besides raids, for viable solo/duo content, for open world content. And when you party up for the difficult party stuff, you can switch to a job. Then it becomes a la Dark Souls esque, you can be a elemental blade wielder with high defensive skills or a magician in heavy armor, or a ranger with pets, or a ranger with magic, or a conjurer with a great axe. Another option would be to unlock the armoury system cooldown when switching between classes on the fly. PvP would be a lot more frantic and some classes would be overpowered at certain things. And that's ok because this wouldn't be raid type content where everyone has to be equal. You just go out and kill or group up with a friend and cause some mayhem.

[Dererk]

I got one solution for the vertical dilemma.
Classes:

No please let classes die.

We need ideas to go forward on job progression not go 10 steps back to make classes useful we need better open world end game content. Because everything related to jobs and battle and magic is behind duty finder.

[Sandpark]

No please let classes die.

It's as Hyrist said. The only progression jobs are likely to get is vertical. Any content open world under this vertical system would end up being made too easy or suffer people complaining about performance issues. Then if jobs start getting vertical and horizontal, this problem would compound the problem as parties would need each other less. If you need to see proof of this with open world content mixed with horizontal progression and no duty finder, go play ESO or read their forums.

[Dererk]

It's as Hyrist said. The only progression jobs are likely to get is vertical. Any content open world under this vertical system would end up being made too easy or suffer people complaining about performance issues. Then if jobs start getting vertical and horizontal, this problem would compound the problem as parties would need each other less. If you need to see proof of this with open world content mixed with horizontal progression and no duty finder, go play ESO or read their forums.

No I will stay here and complain to they make better open world game play.

I know jobs will be vertical but your idea to make classes useful is a waste of time when we need better open world stuff cuz guess what it's just for crafters and gathers not people who's sole focus is battle roles.

I would think you as a DPS main would love more stuff to do out side duty finder to get better stuff like tomestones and gear.

[Sandpark]

No I will stay here and complain to they make better open world game play.

I know jobs will be vertical but your idea to make classes useful is a waste of time when we need better open world stuff cuz guess what it's just for crafters and gathers not people who's sole focus is battle roles.

I would think you as a DPS main would love more stuff to do out side duty finder to get better stuff like tomestones and gear.

Oh I would love more varied stuff to do for endgame gear. I would just prefer non instanced stuff for solo/duo/light party or 8 man. Things more akin to Sea, Sky, Abyssea. All those things I was quoting are just more of the same. Instanced dungeons with required nuances.