The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[Dererk]

Its just as Ladon said they did the exact same thing with dungeons and raids as they did with 2.0.

I was very disappointed in how Alexander was done its just like coil trash boss next dam instance trash boss. Repeat.

They took what should have been a chalanging fun raid and did the same thing. We should have expected this they cater everything to the Duty Finder. Well guess what Not every thing should be accessed by the duty finder. For those on less populated worlds I'm sorry but it's true. They need to focus less on outing stuff in duty finder and more on real end game content.

My suggestion once you clear a dungeon turn it into a new zone for that person for exploration you can put new stuff in here to do.

[Elisewin]

If you don't like to do dungeon crawling YOU DON'T LIKE MMOs.

The problem is not to run dungeons.
The problem is that in FF XIV I saw probably some of the worst dungeons in my 10 years of MMOs.
They're idiot-proof, way too linear and except some bosses they don't have mechanics.
That's the thing I'd love to see improved.

I can understand they need to have a low difficult for everything story/daily-related (and I'm fine with that), but it's possible that in 2 years they were not able to design a SINGLE mid-difficult (and optional) dungeon for 4?
Outside storyline, outside everything.
I don't even care about rewards.
It's just for the fun of having something a little more exciting to do instead doing the same old linear and boring roulette dungeon.

I really love the story of this game, I love playing the raids in the 3 nights a week spent with my static.
But outside that I really find difficult to find something to do.

[Hyrist]

---

FFXI constantly added new systems, not all of them worked and not all of them were good but they were new and different from each other.

Dynamis, Limbus, Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Campaign, Abyssea.

Chains of Promathia added new Dynamis zones to the existing one but it didn't stop them from adding Limbus which was a whole new feature.

Campaign and Beseiged though similar weren't the same.

reasonable people don't want radical redesign of existing systems. they want expansions to add new stuff they can put into their rotation of things to do.

You are forgetting yourself, and your history.

FFXI did indeed add these new systems, but never at the release of an Expansion and most of them were derivitive of one another. Let's break it down.

You forgot the first expansion: Rize of the Zilart: The system they added was Sky, then eventually Dynamis, Ground Kings were the endgame at the start. The base game only loaded Expeditionary Force and Eco Warrior quests. We can cover those with FFXIV content with FATEs and Guildleves respectively.

FFXIV is in its first expansion and it started with MORE than that. Much much more and has updated it continually before the first expansion. So you can consiter that content front loaded. We already have more content than Rize of the Zilart. That includes Dynamis. We also have the addition of Guildlhests, Treasure Hunts, and Hunt Marks.

At this point, FFXI is playing catch-up with us. Everything else, are future expansions. For example.

Limbus , 2nd Expansion.

Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage 3rd Expansion

Campaign, 4th Expansion, and I'd contest Campaign as a valid addition because it's essentially Besieged re-written.

Abyssea is sort of it's own mini-expansion system that serves to fill the dry spell between Wings of the Goddess and the 5th Expansion.

I'm not even going to go back and datemark theses - which may also be a factor to consider.

So timeline wise, we're ahead of FFXI. Moreover, keep in mind that most of the content for FFXI did not need to be updated once released. They could just leave it. That does not work in a vertical progression MMO. We get a NEW series of 8 Man raids ever 6 or so months. We get a new Seriese of 24 Man raids every alternating 6 or so months - this is on top of new dungeons and dungeon updates, new Primal fight updates, etc.

Can you imagine Dynamis getting updated every 6 months with new floors? No you can't because it took more than a year for them to turn around with Dreamland Dynamis, with Einherjar and Walk of Echos.

Sky got Sea, but where did we go after that? And Limbus? That didn't get updated till Post Abyssea era several years down the line. You can't compare that content to this, because their content never aged until their twilight years. Our content in FFXIV does, and does quickly. They've done a remarkable job of keeping Dungeons relevant - but I'm waiting on word for some sort of Roulette for Crystal Tower - and some more usefulness out of the mats that come form the Coils.

This is a vertical progression MMO. This means you're Megaman killing the 8 Robot Masters, same format, different levels. Anything we add on that point either lives a short life, or has to be constantly updated, or put as part of a roulette to keep relevant.

All Things considered, we're doing really well with content. People just chose not to see it that way.

[justinjarjar]

The problem is not to run dungeons.
The problem is that in FF XIV I saw probably some of the worst dungeons in my 10 years of MMOs.
They're idiot-proof, way too linear and except some bosses they don't have mechanics.
That's the thing I'd love to see improved.

I can understand they need to have a low difficult for everything story/daily-related (and I'm fine with that), but it's possible that in 2 years they were not able to design a SINGLE mid-difficult (and optional) dungeon for 4?
Outside storyline, outside everything.
I don't even care about rewards.
It's just for the fun of having something a little more exciting to do instead doing the same old linear and boring roulette dungeon.

I really love the story of this game, I love playing the raids in the 3 nights a week spent with my static.
But outside that I really find difficult to find something to do.

What other MMO's did you play?Oold school wow I remember getting lost and giving up on dungeons (that I had spent an hour just getting a group for) many times, now there is bad design.

[Ayanno]

Hyrist, I want you to sit there with a straight face and tell me Sky is the same thing as Nyzul Isle. No, really, tell me the two forms of endgame were the same.

Now, I want you to sit there with a straight face and tell me Alexander (Savage) is in anyway different then Binding Coil of Bahamut, other then name/fresh paint.

Can't to either one? B-I-N-G-O, that is the problem. I find it both amusing and a little sad that so many people are happy do be doing the same thing, with a different name/look that they've been doing for 2 years. The reason XI's endgame at 75 cap worked for so many year was because there were a lot of differences between the raids. Einerjar did not feel like Dynamis. Nyzul did not feel like Sky. The core mechanics of the battle engine were the same, of course, but how you got to the Mega Boss of Death +2(+1 is for noobs) was different enough, varied enough, that it never felt like "more of the same".

Monday: Dynamis
Tuesday: Einerjar/Sea
Weds: Sky
Thursday: Nyzul

For FFXIV? It looks like:

Monday: 1 of 2 dungeons
Tuesday: 1of 2 dungeons
Weds: 1 of 2 dungeons
Thursday 1 of 2 dungeons

.....err, yay? Yes, I realize this is the first expansion, and what I showed were XI over the years and XIV hasn't had the length of time they had as of yet. However, the first expansion didn't change a thing as far as endgame goes. Unlike XI. Rise of the Zilart was first......going to tell me that Sky was the same thing as Eco-Warrior or Expedtionary Force? Didn't think so.

I don't want this to turn into XI, but XI did do a lot of things right, one of those things was varied endgame raids. XIV has not even attempted to change anything. 2.0 problems are still 3.0 problems.

[Seryl199]

Think of it as a playground with toys like rubber balls, nerf guns, ... etc. within a theme park like Disneyland with curated rides and attractions.

When you are tired of riding the Pirates of the Caribbean, you can go to the playground and play with the rest of the kids.

Sounds like a fun area to put in Gold Saucer!

My suggestion once you clear a dungeon turn it into a new zone for that person for exploration you can put new stuff in here to do.

I think this suggestion is pretty cool, actually. Exploring areas like Stone Vigil or Amdapor Keep would offer familiar areas, would ease development as areas already exist, and could be filled with various items, collectible glamours or minions, NM's or any other goodies. Maybe have specially themed treasure maps for these areas?

[SendohJin]

You are forgetting yourself, and your history.

FFXI did indeed add these new systems, but never at the release of an Expansion and most of them were derivitive of one another. Let's break it down.

what does that mean "never at the release of an expansion"? Besieged was at ToAU launch was it not? Limbus wasn't at CoP launch but pretty sure ENMs were.

and i think i was clear that being derivative is okay if it's different. Beastmen dailies are just quests but the way it works makes it a thing people can keep going back to.

just like ENMs were a twist on BCNMs but it was different enough that it became part of some people's regular rotation.

All Things considered, we're doing really well with content. People just chose not to see it that way.

we're okay but we're not great. all things considered but you seem to not consider that this is 3.0. some of us had to suffer through 1.0.

so you should consider that some of us see this more like CoP than RotZ.

[AlexionSkylark]

wait wait wait wait....

So, all the ppl complaining that Heavensward is "more of the same" are FFXI players complaining that FFXIV is not more like FFXI?
Is that it?

[Eekiki]

wait wait wait wait....

So, all the ppl complaining that Heavensward is "more of the same" are FFXI players complining that FFXIV is not more like FFXI?
Is that it?

In the same way that some people complain that ice cream is cold, yes.

[Kallera]

wait wait wait wait....

So, all the ppl complaining that Heavensward is "more of the same" are FFXI players complaining that FFXIV is not more like FFXI?
Is that it?

No.

In the same way that some people complain that ice cream is cold, yes.

Also no.