The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[SendohJin]

If you don't like to do dungeon crawling, gearing up and raids, YOU DON'T LIKE MMOs.

this is wrong.

Hunts are none of those things.
PvP is none of those things.
Treasure Maps are none of those things.

those were new features added to the game that didn't exist at 2.0.

FATEs are FATEs
Leves are Leves
4 man dungeons are 4 man dungeons
8 man trials are 8 man trials

those have all been upgraded but 3.0 added no new systems like Hunts, Treasure Maps or Beastmen Dailies were added.

Flying is new but it's not a standalone feature, you fly to hunt mobs and you fly to gathering points, that's all. it doesn't even take much to make Flying itself a new feature if they implemented something simple like races. you can have a quest where people make laps and hit all the Aethercurrents, whichever player(s) get under a certain time will get a daily/weekly rewards.

that's a simple gameplay feature that's not a rehash of more FATEs, more Hunt mobs, more Expert Dungeons, more Trials.

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FFXI constantly added new systems, not all of them worked and not all of them were good but they were new and different from each other.

Dynamis, Limbus, Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Campaign, Abyssea.

Chains of Promathia added new Dynamis zones to the existing one but it didn't stop them from adding Limbus which was a whole new feature.

Campaign and Beseiged though similar weren't the same.

reasonable people don't want radical redesign of existing systems. they want expansions to add new stuff they can put into their rotation of things to do.

[Ladon]

FFXI constantly added new systems, not all of them worked and not all of them were good but they were new and different from each other.

Dynamis, Limbus, Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Campaign, Abyssea.

Chains of Promathia added new Dynamis zones to the existing one but it didn't stop them from adding Limbus which was a whole new feature.

The most important point in this thread. And no this isn't about trying to make FF14 FF11-2.

This is an example of designing new content beyond creating a boss with a different set of mechanics because right now that is all FF14 is doing. 2.0 was just a boss attack run and 3.0 is shaping up to be exactly the same.

-The 60 dungeons are EXACTLY the same as all the 50 dungeons but with a new coat of paint. You pull trash on a linear path, kill some bosses, get tokens.
-Hunts are still hunts. Nothing changed here except their models. How you find them and deal with them is the same as 2.0.
-FATES are still FATES, again nothing changed from them in 2.0.
-Alexander is really just a new phase of coil except turns are now called floors.

And from the sound of it, the floating island is just going to be Crystal Tower with a different tileset and another new set of bosses.

This is really just MMO treadmilling at it's worst. No new concepts were added to the game and nothing was changed on how players approach content in 3.0 compared to 2.0.

They really do need to take a page from FF11 here and actually add some significant new systems and ways for players to approach content. There is no reason Alexander should be playing out exactly like Coil did and it's completely disheartening to know that Alexander floors 5-8 and 9-12 are going to play out EXACTLY like the last 2 coils sets did.

[Hyrist]

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FFXI constantly added new systems, not all of them worked and not all of them were good but they were new and different from each other.

Dynamis, Limbus, Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Campaign, Abyssea.

Chains of Promathia added new Dynamis zones to the existing one but it didn't stop them from adding Limbus which was a whole new feature.

Campaign and Beseiged though similar weren't the same.

reasonable people don't want radical redesign of existing systems. they want expansions to add new stuff they can put into their rotation of things to do.

You are forgetting yourself, and your history.

FFXI did indeed add these new systems, but never at the release of an Expansion and most of them were derivitive of one another. Let's break it down.

You forgot the first expansion: Rize of the Zilart: The system they added was Sky, then eventually Dynamis, Ground Kings were the endgame at the start. The base game only loaded Expeditionary Force and Eco Warrior quests. We can cover those with FFXIV content with FATEs and Guildleves respectively.

FFXIV is in its first expansion and it started with MORE than that. Much much more and has updated it continually before the first expansion. So you can consiter that content front loaded. We already have more content than Rize of the Zilart. That includes Dynamis. We also have the addition of Guildlhests, Treasure Hunts, and Hunt Marks.

At this point, FFXI is playing catch-up with us. Everything else, are future expansions. For example.

Limbus , 2nd Expansion.

Beseiged, Nyzul Isle, Salvage 3rd Expansion

Campaign, 4th Expansion, and I'd contest Campaign as a valid addition because it's essentially Besieged re-written.

Abyssea is sort of it's own mini-expansion system that serves to fill the dry spell between Wings of the Goddess and the 5th Expansion.

I'm not even going to go back and datemark theses - which may also be a factor to consider.

So timeline wise, we're ahead of FFXI. Moreover, keep in mind that most of the content for FFXI did not need to be updated once released. They could just leave it. That does not work in a vertical progression MMO. We get a NEW series of 8 Man raids ever 6 or so months. We get a new Seriese of 24 Man raids every alternating 6 or so months - this is on top of new dungeons and dungeon updates, new Primal fight updates, etc.

Can you imagine Dynamis getting updated every 6 months with new floors? No you can't because it took more than a year for them to turn around with Dreamland Dynamis, with Einherjar and Walk of Echos.

Sky got Sea, but where did we go after that? And Limbus? That didn't get updated till Post Abyssea era several years down the line. You can't compare that content to this, because their content never aged until their twilight years. Our content in FFXIV does, and does quickly. They've done a remarkable job of keeping Dungeons relevant - but I'm waiting on word for some sort of Roulette for Crystal Tower - and some more usefulness out of the mats that come form the Coils.

This is a vertical progression MMO. This means you're Megaman killing the 8 Robot Masters, same format, different levels. Anything we add on that point either lives a short life, or has to be constantly updated, or put as part of a roulette to keep relevant.

All Things considered, we're doing really well with content. People just chose not to see it that way.

[SendohJin]

You are forgetting yourself, and your history.

FFXI did indeed add these new systems, but never at the release of an Expansion and most of them were derivitive of one another. Let's break it down.

what does that mean "never at the release of an expansion"? Besieged was at ToAU launch was it not? Limbus wasn't at CoP launch but pretty sure ENMs were.

and i think i was clear that being derivative is okay if it's different. Beastmen dailies are just quests but the way it works makes it a thing people can keep going back to.

just like ENMs were a twist on BCNMs but it was different enough that it became part of some people's regular rotation.

All Things considered, we're doing really well with content. People just chose not to see it that way.

we're okay but we're not great. all things considered but you seem to not consider that this is 3.0. some of us had to suffer through 1.0.

so you should consider that some of us see this more like CoP than RotZ.