It's time to buff Ninja - Yes it is.

[Pluvia]

I'd disagree only because TA is only used once per minute and NIN rarely has to move from the rear (since you don't have to Armor Crush that often), so they should almost always be in position for it. DRG was far more unforgiving recently (though they adjusted Claw+Fang and Wheeling Thrust, so they don't have it as bad now), which is what I was generally thinking of. After the DRG adjustments, they're all probably in about the same spot, IMO.

Look at it this way dragoons ability to up the dps of the raid is on a 3min cd and doesn't rely on hitting the mob where as our 10% every min needs to hit the positional that's the comparison between raid utilities. no one smart cares about the potency loss of trick attack its more of if something out of your control happens if screws your whole raid. So no missing a trick attack more then just lets you down its a whole downer for the raid and it really needs to be changed.

[Viridiana]

You do realize that the debuff doesn't apply if it doesn't hit the positional right so its a net loss for every single person in the raid.
Honestly we could care less about the potency loss its more of the fact that it hurts the raid a lot when something happens and you miss the positional. Look at it this way dragoons ability to up the dps of the raid is on a 3min cd and doesn't rely on hitting the mob where as our 10% every min needs to hit the positional that's the comparison between raid utilities. no one smart cares about the 160 potency loss every min its more of the debuff thing.

That's my point. >_>

The person I was responding to was saying that DRG was being hurt more by positionals than NIN was. I responded that missing TA is frickin' huge.

[Pluvia]

That's my point. >_>

The person I was responding to was saying that DRG was being hurt more by positionals than NIN was. I responded that missing TA is frickin' huge.

My apologies I meant to quote the person you had was on my phone so didn't notice i was combining posts fixed and edited in the previous post.

[Tukken]

Lol everyone wants their class to be #1 in their respective role. Why not just ask SE to pick one from each role and erase the rest. Give the only DPS role a sword in one hand, a laser gun in the other and allow them to cast spells while slashing AND shooting the enemy. Just remove the HP bar for the tank class and make them immune to all dmg and give the only healer class LB3 as their only spell with no cast time and no resource requirement.

But wait...then you'll complain that the DPS class can't tank and solo the boss...

You sir sum up my thoughts exactly. You win the internet for today!

[Alahra]

In what way?

I wasn't referring so much to the total potency lost so much as how complicated it is to handle the movement and positioning in the face of mechanics. Since NIN generally has to move less than DRG (and far less than MNK), I consider it more forgiving than either of the other two melee. Given TA's long cooldown you generally have a lot of time to plan for it and make sure you're using it at a point where the boss won't be spinning on you, whereas MNK and DRG are worrying about that at far more points in their rotations over the course of a minute. TA being on the oGCD and Suiton having the 12-second window also give you time to hold TA without stopping DPS, whereas MNK and DRG can't delay positionals without impacting their uptime on various timers.

To a degree I suppose it's a matter of what *bothers* me more, I suppose. I tend to be pretty careful with TA and rarely miss it, whereas on DRG or MNK, I miss positionals a lot more simply because I'm having to do them so much more often. Forgiving/unforgiving was kind of inaccurate word choice on my point, though, I'll grant that.

[Medieval]

Ninjas are slightly behind in dps(within 5% of dragoons), but seriously no one is going to deny you entry for being a ninja. Well unless you have bards/mchs in group and they need a dragoon.

[Kaybye]

Ninjas are more than slightly behind in AoE.

This isn't about being denied entry (good players rarely will ever be denied). However, this is about bringing ninja in line with the other melee classes. I can live with being behind 5% ST due to extra utility, but they need to address our other issues: TP, mudras, AoE

[Sleigh]

Ninjas are more than slightly behind in AoE.

This isn't about being denied entry (good players rarely will ever be denied). However, this is about bringing ninja in line with the other melee classes. I can live with being behind 5% ST due to extra utility, but they need to address our other issues: TP, mudras, AoE

They don't really have it worse than other melee with TP. MNK is arguable, most advocates for using the TP restore include using more Fracture.

Mudra does need a fix, yes, probably in the form of band-aid fixes like changing which Mudra comes from what combination (like putting the more often used ones on single use Mudra).

AoE, there's always going to be winners and losers with AoE. Right now NIN is the loser, but that's not really to say they "need" buffs in that department, much like how people weren't clamoring for MNK AoE buffs in ARR even though they were worse off than 3.0 NIN is at AoE.

[Phireblast]

I live on the east coast, and there are some days where my mudras are FLAWLESS and some days they're just...ugh. I think i'm just going to permanently switch to Fuma unless a Bard plays Foe. I really don't like to rely on latency rng for my DPS.

[Subucnimorning]

It would be nice if Raiton just replaced Fuma instead of requiring a second Mudra, I think even people with poor latency could play Ninja if that only required 1 mudra combo + ninjutsu. I have excellent latency fortunately so am not experiencing much other than occasion Ninjutsu not firing when I hit it too quickly after the last mudra in the combo and ending up getting rabbit ears which is annoying.