I dont get all the Bard hatred..

[RiceisNice]

One thing to note is that you must play Bard in a totally different mindset than your 2.0 counterpart. Heavy Shot is now your filler move, and both Bloodletter and Misery's End take higher priority. I.e: if you have ME, BL, and EA up, the order would be EA/ME/BL/Heavy Shot. It's more important for us to proc our Bloodletter over using our GCD, as the potential of it proc'ing over time is more important than the static 150 potency from HS. It may make some players go crazy seeing their GCDs on que for so long, but it's what we have to do to maximize our dps.

You mean like how it was in 2.0? The priority list hasn't changed at all, it's the flow/execution and the fragmented playstyle that puts me off.

[Shunye]

Not really. But again saying "I think bard still has fantastic utility" isn't the topic here. People who didn't level up bard to 60 think it's a matter of utility, damage or whatever. It's not...

...They have to give us more mobility under minuet....

...Until then i'm not playing my bard again, looking forward to the tweaks.

I can safely say, no one cares if people don't like that you can't run around while doing max damage. Bards are still very mobile, can still use all but 2 abilities with wm turned off. The added depth of abilities has finally made bard challenging to play and most bards like the changes. I know I do. Just because the very vocal minority wants their easy mode class back, isn't enough justification to change how wm works. Try learning how to use your class how the developers of the game intend or stay in the 2.0 mindset. The choice is up to you.

[RiceisNice]

...

I'd have to disagree that any depth was added to bard, let alone make it challenging. They can pull relatively good damage, enough that it justifies a raid spot, but to say that it made the class "harder" to play is a load of allagan bologna. Less timers to keep track of, their gameflow is slowed down to a crawl and you don't even have to be as reactive as you were in 2.0 to mainain your output (infact you'd want to slow down weapon skills a bit if you don't want to waste TP on an extra straight shot).

[Velhart]

Despite BRD having a skill cap now similar to other jobs, it is still safe to say (my opinion) it is still the easiest DPS job to play. Looking at rotations like DRG's makes my head spin. On BRD, all that felt required out of me beyond the 2.0 setup is utilizing IJ/EA properly and having abilities charge. Like I said before, only real complaint on BRD for me is that it does feel clunky, which tweaks could fix. Just keep offering criticism on how to make what is there now better instead of trying to get SE to take something completely down that is not broken(anymore).

[Empty-handed]

Remember when wm had a cast time. Remember when wm was a dps loss most of the time when the expansion was released. Remember when in wm your skills got locked for a good 10s or so. We had all the right to complain. Cause the job was broken. It still is.

Or when u see straighter shot procs but it would still have a cast time... Yet u need to hit again leading to tp drain issues.

Or let's talk about how repelling shot being iffy when u follow it with a cast.....

A lot of the clunk that comes with wm is still there after the quick fix. Slapping cast time to everything was a horrible design choice.

Machinist play wise is actually complete. Maybe miner changes and the job will be perfect. I am switching to machinist till this broken job is fixed.

[Croisciento]

....

Please tell me how Minuet adds depth to the class and how much challenging is it to play with it on. The only difficulty with Minuet is to know exactly when to put it, to be efficient that's it. Other than that it's not more difficult you actually had less buttons to press on compared to when you have it off.

I'm not asking being able to do maximum damage while running around. Of course I don't. I'm asking for tweaks that would actually keep the same spirit bard have without it, just like they did with Machinist. When you play machinist with GB on it feels smooth but when you play bard it feels clunky as hell because all of your skills do not work correctly with Minuet.

Some skills like Rapid Fire function differently when you have Gauss Barel, why isn't it the case with River of blood or any other spell that can actually be relevant when you have cast times?

[AkashiXI]

You mean like how it was in 2.0? The priority list hasn't changed at all, it's the flow/execution and the fragmented playstyle that puts me off.

I mean, yes, the priority system existed in 2.0. However, you didn't have as many abilities as you do now that warrants you holding your GCDs. It takes a lot of discipline to view each ability and know when to use them, especially in high stress raiding scenarios. Thus, I do feel the skill ceiling is much higher now (although I agree that it's so clunky that it almost feels artificial).

[RiceisNice]

I mean, yes, the priority system existed in 2.0. However, you didn't have as many abilities as you do now that warrants you holding your GCDs. It takes a lot of discipline to view each ability and know when to use them, especially in high stress raiding scenarios. Thus, I do feel the skill ceiling is much higher now (although I agree that it's so clunky that it almost feels artificial).

I feel like you're grossly overexaggerating how complex or "discipline needed" for bard is needed after 2.0. We aren't holding GCDs because of new abilities, we're holding it because of the cast time's interaction with one of our passives; River of blood. We only got 3 skills that are used in our normal rotation, while 2 of our previous skills are effectively rendered moot (one DoT due to ironjaws, and repelling shot due to it's interaction with WM). And maybe flame arrow for gamepad users.

[AkashiXI]

Lol... I must be miscommunicating with you, because you keep echoing the same problems I'm agreeing with you on. Yes, the job isn't terribly difficult to master. Yes, the clashing of River of Blood with WM makes for "artificial" difficulty. That being said, it still has created a skill gap between players who are and aren't optimizing Bard, which is why you've been hearing horror stories of Bards doing less than 600 dps on average. Also, I'm really confused by your repelling shot statement. Clashes with WM? You can buffer it between a GCD and you won't be interrupted @_@. The only time it doesn't work is if I'm lagging or I have the skill speed card from an AST. Also Flaming Arrow is admittedly difficult on a controller, but definitely doable (at least on a PC, I can't speak for the ps brothers :s).

[Meow9000]

So I played Bard on and off throughout 2.X and going into Heavensward I saw nothing but complaints about Wanderers Minuet. So, I leveled the job to 60 and Now that i'm i180 and through a1-4 and Bismarck ex as a bard, I'd like to offer my opinions. I do understand why bards from 2.0 are complaining, sure cast times make the class feel slow and turretish, but honestly the class doesn't really feel different. Sure you cantdance around the Arena all the time while you have wanderers Minuet, but It's not like you're a blackmage that doesn't have the freedom of deciding to move around without cast times. You have an option to turn it off if you feel like dancing around. Ontop of the fact that we have short cast times- which leaves room for movement and dodging mechanics. WM really has just added a layer of skill to the job- knowing when to put it up and knowing how to move to avoid mechanics in a way that doesn't cause too much of a dps loss. As in moving yourself enough to avoid an aoe or two instead of flying from one side of the arena to the other. I know Bards don't enjoy being encouraged to sit in one place and Dps hard, but's not that bad and I actually enjoy the new style of bard. I enjoy the way the class looks as it Charging up during WM- Feels a lot like you're charging a shot something like Megamans Charge shot. You're pouring more power into your arrows essentially so the glowy pause is pretty cool IMO. I practiced Bard hard towards the end of 2.0 hard, did fcob so I could adjust to being a ranged melee dps to play Machinist and even before then I was a BLM main so these cast times and learning to minimize the unnecessary movements was absolutely nothing for me and it pretty much seems like a lot of fights that are out now (Besides Rav Ex, fuck those stupid seeing Walls and Bismarck Tornadoes) don't really require drastic movement constant movement wherre you cant keep WM up for a good portion of the fight. Other than a few QOL changes I really enjoy Bards new playstyle and new skills. It really just seems like they raised the skill cap for the class and are rewarding us for knowing when to sit and dps hard vs when to use our mobile capabilities.