Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

[winsock]

Ok, then make my stance change free. There now i dont lose resources either.

Paladin pays a fee to stance change... which im still ok with. Keep the mp cost there.

We could go back and forth all day 'if only i had a skill i could access every other gcd that restores TP', 'if only i could block and parry', 'if only my stance change didnt have a cd', 'if only my stun didnt have a cd' etc. blah blah blah.

WARs and PLDs are balance differently. In the context of stances being off and on gcd, do you at least see the point here? i.e. the PLD gains on the stance change, the WAR gains after the stance change. Both the PLD and the WAR make gains in a similar amount of time because defiance is off gcd and shield stance is on gcd.

[Reynhart]

i.e. the PLD gains on the stance change, the WAR gains after the stance change. Both the PLD and the WAR make gains in a similar amount of time because defiance is off gcd and shield stance is on gcd.

You're still wrong about that.
Defiance boosts healing received. Meaning that if you take a hit before Defiance and then switch to Defiance, you'll be up faster than if a PLD got hit in Sword Oath and swapped to Shield Oath after.
As for Deliverance, it boosts your damage by 5%.

And both stances are boosted by some actions, whereas Sword/Shield Oath and Grit are always the same.

[winsock]

You're still wrong about that.
Defiance boosts healing received. Meaning that if you take a hit before Defiance and then switch to Defiance, you'll be up faster than if a PLD got hit in Sword Oath and swapped to Shield Oath after.

Nope lol. We are talking about activating on or off gcd.
Defiance increases healing received, but you need to receive healing before you can benefit from it (you need a follow-up action). Pally gets dmg reduction as soon as the stance changes.

[karateorangutang]

We could go back and forth all day 'if only i had a skill i could access every other gcd that restores TP', 'if only i could block and parry', 'if only my stance change didnt have a cd', 'if only my stun didnt have a cd' etc. blah blah blah.

WARs and PLDs are balance differently. In the context of stances being off and on gcd, do you at least see the point here? i.e. the PLD gains on the stance change, the WAR gains after the stance change. Both the PLD and the WAR make gains in a similar amount of time because defiance is off gcd and shield stance is on gcd.

Ok, you're not making a point. "Things are they way they are" is not a point. This is a discussion as to why the changes to an off the GCD stance change for WAR and DRK would be bad or good for game balance.

Paladin is hindered in the current meta because they are currently the tank that has the hardest time dealing with MT responsibilities effectively. Yes they can keep hate and deal with tank busters.... but other classes do them better. This isn't game balance.

On the second point, WAR having to deal with their cost is situational. Paladin can't get around the cost of their stance. That is a major difference.

So, yes I suppose we can agree to disagree.

[winsock]

Ok, you're not making a point. "Things are they way they are" is not a point.

My point is that they can both gain similar mitigation in a similar amount of time as the game exists currently.

switching to Defiance off GCD + activating Innerbeast on gcd
is similar to
activating Shield Oath on GCD

Why should PLD be able to switch off GCD when its pretty even already?

[karateorangutang]

My point is that they can both gain similar mitigation in a similar amount of time as the game exists currently.

switching to Defiance off GCD + activating Innerbeast on gcd
is similar to
activating Shield Oath on GCD

Why should PLD be able to switch off GCD when its pretty even already?

So everytime a tankbuster coming you switch to defiance right before that? You could anticipate it and let a regen tick hit you... and mitigate this weakness with no negative to you at all.

As I said that is a situational weakness.

Now if the MP cost on Paladin and Dark Knight stances was randomly mititgated... then it would be equal.

[winsock]

So everytime a tankbuster coming you switch to defiance right before that? You could anticipate it and let a regen tick hit you... and mitigate this weakness with no negative to you at all.

As I said that is a situational weakness.

Now if the MP cost on Paladin and Dark Knight stances was randomly mititgated... then it would be equal.

Cant help but ask if you are trolling me... Are you really being serious?
Are you really trying to say that a single regen tick after a tank buster, is worth anywhere near 20% mitigation of said tankbuster...

MP cost is another discussion for another thread IMO, and one that i probably wouldnt get involved in, but would read (my initial thought is that you have MP cost because you dont have a cd, but no opinion atm on whether or not its the right cost). Maybe start a discussion on it? seems interesting.

[karateorangutang]

Cant help but ask if you are trolling me... Are you really being serious?
Are you really trying to say that a single regen tick after a tank buster, is worth anywhere near 20% mitigation of said tankbuster...

MP cost is another discussion for another thread IMO, and one that i probably wouldnt get involved in, but would read (my initial thought is that you have MP cost because you dont have a cd, but no opinion atm on whether or not its the right cost). Maybe start a discussion on it? seems interesting.

I'm not trying to troll you.

I was exaggerating for effect. If your using defiance as a last minute resort to mitigate damage then your doing it wrong.

I'm just done with this.. if your not understanding my point then I guess there's no point.

I still think its a worthwhile option. Not that there isn't others to explore.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Paladin is hindered in the current meta because they are currently the tank that has the hardest time dealing with MT responsibilities effectively..

What? Explain yourself!

[karateorangutang]

What? Explain yourself!

As I said in my first post like 5 pages ago this is all from what i've been reading, but it seems to me that in the current meta WAR has a spot in every raid in some way or another. This is great!

This however should not be at the expense of the other tank jobs. Now you can be the best and play Paladin at such a level that it doesn't matter. The general player base however has a strong love of WAR right now. This is a topic for another thread though so.. yeah.

/end