Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

[Argyle_Darkheart]

This is all well and good if tanking was about "surviving", but its not. It's about surviving and keeping threat and contributing to the group. With the exception of progression content there isn't a tankbuster in the game that will kill a WAR outside of defiance. Its not like PLD gets hit for a million dmg less. I think your overstating the squishiness of WAR.

As far as I can tell, winsock isn't necessarily talking about the practical differences, but the mechanical differences. You might very well say that this weakness of Defiance that he's outlining isn't a big deal, but it's still a weakness.

The point is that the tank stances don't function the same. Shield Oath and Grit mostly do, but Defiance is actually a lot different, with its own set of strengths and weaknesses. And yes, it being oGCD is one of its strengths. If Shield Oath and Grit gain this strength as well, then where does that leave Defiance?

Warrior needs to have easy access to Defiance because of how important the abilities gated behind it are. DRK has Souleater self-heal and Blood Weapon depending upon stance, but none of Paladin's toolkit depends upon their stance.

[karateorangutang]

As far as I can tell, winsock isn't necessarily talking about the practical differences, but the mechanical differences. You might very well say that this weakness of Defiance that he's outlining isn't a big deal, but it's still a weakness.

The point is that the tank stances don't function the same. Shield Oath and Grit mostly do, but Defiance is actually a lot different, with its own set of strengths and weaknesses. And yes, it being oGCD is one of its strengths. If Shield Oath and Grit gain this strength as well, then where does that leave Defiance?

Warrior needs to have easy access to Defiance because of how important the abilities gated behind it are. DRK has Souleater self-heal and Blood Weapon depending upon stance, but none of Paladin's toolkit depends upon their stance.

Yes that's true, but if im out of MP I cant stance change either. I'm also not advocating an immediate change. I'm just saying it would be interesting and would add a layer to paladin play. Paladin's skill cap is pretty low based on its abilities. It wouldnt hurt to give it flavor.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Yes that's true, but if im out of MP I cant stance change either.

Then ask for the MP cost to be removed? What does that have to do with it being on or off GCD?

[karateorangutang]

Then ask for the MP cost to be removed? What does that have to do with it being on or off GCD?

It doesn't.... It relates completely to the point that WAR has to use, potentially, a resource after popping a stance.

[Giantbane]

Then ask for the MP cost to be removed? What does that have to do with it being on or off GCD?

I think some people view the mana cost as the appropriate limiting factor to DRK/PLD stance dancing, while it being on GCD makes it feel clunky. The argument is that the mana cost is enough of a penalty and if it were changed, both of those classes would play better. So that, in the mind of some, makes it a positive change. Asking for positive changes to the game does not seem unreasonable, even if the reasons for the change aren't due to the high end raids that some 2% of the US player base even participates in before echo.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I think some people view the mana cost as the appropriate limiting factor to DRK/PLD stance dancing, while it being on GCD makes it feel clunky. The argument is that the mana cost is enough of a penalty and if it were changed, both of those classes would play better. So that, in the mind of some, makes it a positive change. Asking for positive changes to the game does not seem unreasonable, even if the reasons for the change aren't due to the high end raids that some 2% of the US player base even participates in before echo.

Maybe, but the resource this thread seems to be holding in question is time, not MP.

[karateorangutang]

I think some people view the mana cost as the appropriate limiting factor to DRK/PLD stance dancing, while it being on GCD makes it feel clunky. The argument is that the mana cost is enough of a penalty and if it were changed, both of those classes would play better. So that, in the mind of some, makes it a positive change. Asking for positive changes to the game does not seem unreasonable, even if the reasons for the change aren't due to the high end raids that some 2% of the US player base even participates in before echo.

Thank you.

I don't think people realize how much it actually costs to switch stances on PLD. It's not something you could go bananas with and still have enough MP for Clemency and other abilities. Plus taking it off the GCD would give it an inherent risk/reward for the payment of it.

I'm not advocating they change this in patch 3.1, but I think it deserves some testing.