Astrologian "BUFFS"

[jojober]

WARNING(s): I have not read all of the 72 different AST threads, but probably about 61 of them. Also I'm not in any way a class designer thing, so there's that.

What about a rework on Noct Stance all together? We as AST want to be different from WHM and SCH, but we also want to be as equally desired. With that in mind, what if we kept diurnal sect the way it is. Sure it lacks the raw healing power of the whm, and it lacks the mitigation of the sch, but with suggested noct changes, maybe that is okay.

What if in Noct we kind of reversed where are strengths are. In diurnal, our healing is decent, but the support from our cards, that which is supposed to set us apart, is pretty miniscule at best. So what if in Noct, we changed that. Make our heals still there. We are still healers, but make them not nearly as effective. To counter that, tremendously boost our support ability. In noct, make our card support as potent as our healing is in diurnal, but our healing ability as strong as our support is in diurnal. Also allow sect changing during fights but with a somewhat longer cooldown.

I think this would help give us a more defined role without replacing either of the current jobs and without us being OP. We can be decent backup healers during heal checks with little support, and we can be good support to help with DPS checks, but sacrificing our heal ability and letting our partner pick up more there. I think this also would add a little more strategy to the job since we would need to use good judgment and still have a bit of that risk factor.

[Arcana]

WARNING(s):

What if in Noct we kind of reversed where are strengths are. In diurnal, our healing is decent, but the support from our cards, that which is supposed to set us apart, is pretty miniscule at best. So what if in Noct, we changed that. Make our heals still there. We are still healers, but make them not nearly as effective. To counter that, tremendously boost our support ability. In noct, make our card support as potent as our healing is in diurnal, but our healing ability as strong as our support is in diurnal. Also allow sect changing during fights but with a somewhat longer cooldown.

I have the impresion that SE is totally lost on how to fix Nocturnal Stance, so any idea like this it will help for sure.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

What about a rework on Noct Stance all together?

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

[Codek]

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

I think it could be a perfectly fine trade to sacrifice the ability to pass heal checks to make a better (more risky) push for DPS checks. They would have to start making some content where pushing phases quickly is discouraged though...Which is kind of counter intuitive.

AST really needs some niche that they can fill. With the current tool kit, the only thing I can possibly see is mobility which is a good one but not stressed enough currently by the content.

This is an MMO built on being able to easily swap between classes freely. Even though it's heavily discouraged in other MMO's, I honestly believe that SE should build different end game fights with specific classes in mind. Create the requirement that players can cover different roles between encounters.

As it is now, it's nearly impossible for them to balance all end game content so that 3 healers will be equally desired for the 2 spots available for boss fights (at least, not without a complete re-work of all 3 classes).

[RichardButte]

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

The biggest and saddest irony right now is that people in alex savage are reporting that the DPS rises with SCH/WHM over bringing an AST because the SCH can afford to put in so much more DPS, and more DPS is supposed to be the entire point of the AST.

I think they can do this one of two ways to fix AST:

-Bring all of its potencies in line with the other healing classes and call it a day.

-Go absolutely ham on the cards and make them good enough to at least justify bringing an AST along

Remember, the actual value of AST card buffs is divided by 6 to get the real average amount of extra whatever an AST will bring to a fight.

You're not getting 10% DPS for 15 seconds, because you're going to average drawing that card 17% of the time, so it's closer to 1.67% more DPS given to a single target over the course of the fight.

And as I said, groups bringing everything but AST are doing better in the DPS department.

If AST buffs are going to barely be significant, then the healing potency should be almost on par with SCH/WHM, and since ASTs are queuing as healers for DF, that's the much, MUCH safer way to go.

Either that or the AST's buffs need to be VERY significant, which will promote a more risky playstyle.

[jojober]

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

Yeah I think it would be difficult to balance, and it would have to be done well. As much as I would love every group to want an AST, I of course want all to be desired.

[Miiu]

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

Bottom line is they need to do something. AST have to become desirable by the community. As much as WHM and SCH are. And I don't think aligning the potencies to rival those of the other two healing jobs will actually do the trick. At least not without reworking a good chunk of the AST abilties. So I sincerely hope they'll concentrate on what makes the job unique.

[chumsy]

The problem with this is that if you make AST card buffs too powerful, it will trivialize dps checks in progression fights. This means that fights will either be always cleared with a nocturnal AST, or dev will need to balance checks keeping into account AST buffs - basically making AST mandatory.

I dont believe it will trivialize dps checks, because 1) you wont be drawing balance 100% of the time. 2) its percentage based, so if ilvl is lower dps increase is lower. 3) card buffs are not stackable ie. cannot have 10% dmg and 10% att speed. 150% of current card potency of all cards except spear would make it balance right now.

[RichardButte]

WARNING(s): I have not read all of the 72 different AST threads, but probably about 61 of them. Also I'm not in any way a class designer thing, so there's that.

What about a rework on Noct Stance all together? We as AST want to be different from WHM and SCH, but we also want to be as equally desired. With that in mind, what if we kept diurnal sect the way it is. Sure it lacks the raw healing power of the whm, and it lacks the mitigation of the sch, but with suggested noct changes, maybe that is okay.

What if in Noct we kind of reversed where are strengths are. In diurnal, our healing is decent, but the support from our cards, that which is supposed to set us apart, is pretty miniscule at best. So what if in Noct, we changed that. Make our heals still there. We are still healers, but make them not nearly as effective. To counter that, tremendously boost our support ability. In noct, make our card support as potent as our healing is in diurnal, but our healing ability as strong as our support is in diurnal. Also allow sect changing during fights but with a somewhat longer cooldown.

I think this would help give us a more defined role without replacing either of the current jobs and without us being OP. We can be decent backup healers during heal checks with little support, and we can be good support to help with DPS checks, but sacrificing our heal ability and letting our partner pick up more there. I think this also would add a little more strategy to the job since we would need to use good judgment and still have a bit of that risk factor.

I love this idea.

Either we need to be a vanilla but CAPABLE healer with mild buffs or we need to be a weaker healer with AMAZING buffs that could genuinely end a fight faster.

Right now we're a weaker healer with mild buffs...

[Dyvid]

WARNING(s): I have not read all of the 72 different AST threads, but probably about 61 of them. Also I'm not in any way a class designer thing, so there's that.

What about a rework on Noct Stance all together? We as AST want to be different from WHM and SCH, but we also want to be as equally desired. With that in mind, what if we kept diurnal sect the way it is. Sure it lacks the raw healing power of the whm, and it lacks the mitigation of the sch, but with suggested noct changes, maybe that is okay.

What if in Noct we kind of reversed where are strengths are. In diurnal, our healing is decent, but the support from our cards, that which is supposed to set us apart, is pretty miniscule at best. So what if in Noct, we changed that. Make our heals still there. We are still healers, but make them not nearly as effective. To counter that, tremendously boost our support ability. In noct, make our card support as potent as our healing is in diurnal, but our healing ability as strong as our support is in diurnal. Also allow sect changing during fights but with a somewhat longer cooldown.

I think this would help give us a more defined role without replacing either of the current jobs and without us being OP. We can be decent backup healers during heal checks with little support, and we can be good support to help with DPS checks, but sacrificing our heal ability and letting our partner pick up more there. I think this also would add a little more strategy to the job since we would need to use good judgment and still have a bit of that risk factor.

Yea I was thinking the same thing today as I walked the dog. Give Noct the +5 attack speed buff and Diurnal the healing buff. Add a trait for Noct Stance like 15% or 20% chance that potency on next card drawn is doubled. Either change Aspected Nocturnal to a percent based damage reduction or a percent based return heal based on player damage on target. As for Nocturnal Collective Unconscious 10% damage reduction buff + card duration extension or an actually barrier that push mobs out and stops them from entering.