It's time to buff Ninja - Yes it is.

[m3eansean]

I'd lay money that the first several A4 Savage clears will have a NIN. Given their rather forgiving positionals and great raid utility, it's perfectly all right for DRGs to be a bit higher above them. MNKs should be above them too, since they have a lot more to worry about to keep their damage up.

Just curious, how is NIN having the only positional attack in the game that fails to apply the debuff if you don't meet the positional requirement "rather forgiving". They already fixed DRG so that his Heavy thrust applies, should his positional miss. As of right now, NIN actually has the most strict positional requirement.

[Alahra]

Just curious, how is NIN having the only positional attack in the game that fails to apply the debuff if you don't meet the positional requirement "rather forgiving". They already fixed DRG so that his Heavy thrust applies, should his positional miss. As of right now, NIN actually has the most strict positional requirement.

I'd disagree only because TA is only used once per minute and NIN rarely has to move from the rear (since you don't have to Armor Crush that often), so they should almost always be in position for it. DRG was far more unforgiving recently (though they adjusted Claw+Fang and Wheeling Thrust, so they don't have it as bad now), which is what I was generally thinking of. After the DRG adjustments, they're all probably in about the same spot, IMO.

[Viridiana]

DRG was far more unforgiving recently

In what way? DRG was losing 190 per missed positional. Even if they missed every single one, that's 950 per minute. NIN loses 160 up front (790 remaining) and can easily make up another 120 or more during the 10 seconds (670 remaining). In a party of 8 people, it should not be hard at all to make up the remaining damage, and that's comparing against a DRG who's had the misfortune of missing every single positional for a full minute, versus a NIN missing one positional.

[Pluvia]

I'd disagree only because TA is only used once per minute and NIN rarely has to move from the rear (since you don't have to Armor Crush that often), so they should almost always be in position for it. DRG was far more unforgiving recently (though they adjusted Claw+Fang and Wheeling Thrust, so they don't have it as bad now), which is what I was generally thinking of. After the DRG adjustments, they're all probably in about the same spot, IMO.

Look at it this way dragoons ability to up the dps of the raid is on a 3min cd and doesn't rely on hitting the mob where as our 10% every min needs to hit the positional that's the comparison between raid utilities. no one smart cares about the potency loss of trick attack its more of if something out of your control happens if screws your whole raid. So no missing a trick attack more then just lets you down its a whole downer for the raid and it really needs to be changed.

[Viridiana]

You do realize that the debuff doesn't apply if it doesn't hit the positional right so its a net loss for every single person in the raid.
Honestly we could care less about the potency loss its more of the fact that it hurts the raid a lot when something happens and you miss the positional. Look at it this way dragoons ability to up the dps of the raid is on a 3min cd and doesn't rely on hitting the mob where as our 10% every min needs to hit the positional that's the comparison between raid utilities. no one smart cares about the 160 potency loss every min its more of the debuff thing.

That's my point. >_>

The person I was responding to was saying that DRG was being hurt more by positionals than NIN was. I responded that missing TA is frickin' huge.

[Pluvia]

That's my point. >_>

The person I was responding to was saying that DRG was being hurt more by positionals than NIN was. I responded that missing TA is frickin' huge.

My apologies I meant to quote the person you had was on my phone so didn't notice i was combining posts fixed and edited in the previous post.

[Alahra]

In what way?

I wasn't referring so much to the total potency lost so much as how complicated it is to handle the movement and positioning in the face of mechanics. Since NIN generally has to move less than DRG (and far less than MNK), I consider it more forgiving than either of the other two melee. Given TA's long cooldown you generally have a lot of time to plan for it and make sure you're using it at a point where the boss won't be spinning on you, whereas MNK and DRG are worrying about that at far more points in their rotations over the course of a minute. TA being on the oGCD and Suiton having the 12-second window also give you time to hold TA without stopping DPS, whereas MNK and DRG can't delay positionals without impacting their uptime on various timers.

To a degree I suppose it's a matter of what *bothers* me more, I suppose. I tend to be pretty careful with TA and rarely miss it, whereas on DRG or MNK, I miss positionals a lot more simply because I'm having to do them so much more often. Forgiving/unforgiving was kind of inaccurate word choice on my point, though, I'll grant that.