Strength Tanks and You.

[Souyo]

There is a reason that I main a tank and play a whm as my secondary damn it. Those poor healers get blamed for every stupid thing that the idiot tanks do.

^ That.

The thing I see most in the responses here are "Git gud" or "So and so is bad". Let's go ahead and put that on the table and take a look at it. You tell people to get good, and call them bad, but in a game that has multiple people playing it at the same time everyday, did you ever think that getting off your high horse and actually giving them friendly advice to help them get good was a logical idea?

Probably not. Let's face it a lot of hardcore players don't want to waste their time helping the people not as good as them cause they have their heads so far up their own ass, they would rather spew feces from their face holes than actually do anything productive to make the community better.

Case in point: A lot of Hardcore Raiders are bullies. Note I said " A lot", not all. They do their statics and their raid groups with the same people and expect excellence at all times, yet when they don't get it in something like a Duty Finder PUG group, they whine and complain and insult other people who don't meet said expectations of excellence. We call these souls of depravity, elitists.

These people do whatever it takes to further themselves and their little "Cliques" rather than take what knowledge and experience they have and pass it on.

Then we have actual people who do these things, then pass on and help others. It's like high school all over again between Jocks and Nerds, pretty bad.

People can throw numbers all day long, pull Parser records and post them here, do math. At the end of the day, NONE of that means JACK if you are just an inherently terrible person who can't even suck up your ego long enough to help the little guy "get good". People complain about trolls and elitists, there wouldn't be that problem if people actually came together and made this place better rather than the festering cesspool of idiocy, and hatred, it already is.

[Leshpar]

As a healer, I personally do not like dpsing at all. I am a healer, and I should be saving and using my MP on healing, not throwing out a couple hundred dps.

That said, I still would prefer if a tank has enough health to survive more than one hit.

[Tyrial]

Whole bunch of stuff

Problem is, most of the people who are being told to "git gud" don't want any advice because they fail to see anything outside their little bubble of "perfection" which is sitting in full VIT gear with thousands more HP than is needed and refuse to look at the benefits of alternate builds besides pure VIT. They criticize those of us that do want to push ourselves and are capable of doing so because it doesn't fit into THEIR idea of what a tank should be. They insult us and then get upset when they're proven wrong on the many points that they try and make.

You have valid points in that if you're in a PUG some caution should be used. All I'm seeing from the things that have been posted by you and others who are against STR tanks is that you've never run with a good one who actually understands the job and how to effectively play it outside of a "I'm going to stand here and get punched in the face" style.

[Souyo]

Problem is, most of the people who are being told to "git gud" don't want any advice because they fail to see anything outside their little bubble of "perfection" which is sitting in full VIT gear with thousands more HP than is needed and refuse to look at the benefits of alternate builds besides pure VIT. They criticize those of us that do want to push ourselves and are capable of doing so because it doesn't fit into THEIR idea of what a tank should be. They insult us and then get upset when they're proven wrong on the many points that they try and make.

You have valid points in that if you're in a PUG some caution should be used. All I'm seeing from the things that have been posted by you and others who are against STR tanks is that you've never run with a good one who actually understands the job and how to effectively play it outside of a "I'm going to stand here and get punched in the face" style.

I agree with you completely Tyrial.


And I'll admit that I've never truly run with a good STR tank, cause the ones I encounter don't respect their own limitations, don't use cooldowns, pull 20+ mobs in the new dungeons, and wonder how they died when they eat 12k Damage in under 5 seconds.

[Gyson]

Problem is, most of the people who are being told to "git gud" don't want any advice because they fail to see anything outside their little bubble of "perfection" which is sitting in full VIT gear with thousands more HP than is needed and refuse to look at the benefits of alternate builds besides pure VIT. They criticize those of us that do want to push ourselves and are capable of doing so because it doesn't fit into THEIR idea of what a tank should be. They insult us and then get upset when they're proven wrong on the many points that they try and make.

You have valid points in that if you're in a PUG some caution should be used. All I'm seeing from the things that have been posted by you and others who are against STR tanks is that you've never run with a good one who actually understands the job and how to effectively play it outside of a "I'm going to stand here and get punched in the face" style.

Are we still pretending STR tanks "push themselves" by slapping on some STR gear and then using cooldowns effectively (the latter being what every tank who understands his class does)? Because the reality is anyone can swap equipment, drop gil on melds, etc. I hate to break it to you, but that in of itself is not a sign of skill.

So, if using cooldowns effectively is how we define a tank as "pushing themselves", then news flash: that's a tank thing, not a STR-tank thing, not a VIT-tank thing. Of course, to label that simple task as "pushing themselves" seems a little strange to me.. I call it doing the basics of tanking. I don't know.. maybe some of you are really new to this role or something and truly believe you've stumbled upon some little-known tanking secret. Taking your role (tanking, DPS, healing) seriously 100% of the time and not slacking is what I consider the bare minimum for these games, no matter which set of gear someone is wearing.

You're not "pushing yourself" by putting out a little more damage thanks to swapping in some strength gear. You're doing the same thing the other tanks are doing, except your gear is letting you hit a little bit harder (at the cost of a significant chunk of health loss). You can all stop patting yourselves on the back now for being on the bleeding edge of tanking, or whatever nonsense you think you're doing.

But, I forgot.. VIT tanks don't use cooldowns effectively because they're inherently lazy, not interested in doing their best, blah blah blah, am I right? That's the responses I keep seeing in this thread.

Man, I miss the MMO population from back when these types of of games were a whole lot less popular. The way you guys think makes me facepalm in real life.

[Dhex]

Are we still pretending STR tanks "push themselves" by slapping on some STR gear and then using cooldowns effectively (the latter being what every tank who understands his class does)?

Please tell me how does excess Vitality contribute to the goal of defeating the boss? If you know the tank buster timing, the required eHP, healing required, and can properly execute cooldowns then what is the function of your extraneous stat allotment?

[Krylo]

Please tell me how does excess Vitality contribute to the goal of defeating the boss? If you know the tank buster timing, the required eHP, healing required, and can properly execute cooldowns then what is the function of your extraneous stat allotment?

"Gotta have that 700 accuracy for T13"

[Dhex]

"Gotta have that 700 accuracy for T13"

Gotta be 200% accurate~!

[Xensai]

STR tanking actually does require skill. It requires effort and knowing the ins and outs of your class youre a fool to think otherwise you think that DPS who are top Tier have no skill also? what about healers who are able to Heal + do significant DPS you've added nothing into this thread the whole time you've sat on your high horse thinking that your way is the correct way and everyone should bow down to you.

/edit

and for all the people complaining about healing issues i wear full STR 100% of the time and get commended on how easy it actually was to heal me

[SuperGandhi]

Please tell me how does excess Vitality contribute to the goal of defeating the boss?

He can't, he's like an old timer who won't move on from Analog TV.

Man, I miss the MMO population from back when these types of of games were a whole lot less popular. The way you guys think makes me facepalm in real life.

"Kids these days, VIT is for Tanks you Whippersnappers! It says so on my Fending Gear! It's VIT! Not STR! Git off muh lawn!"

It's not that hard of a concept really, I as a STR Dark Knight am usually 2nd or 3rd on the DPS charts during fights. If a healer really needs me to have 3-4k more HP because they can't handle it, you know what? I can put on a VIT piece or two that's no problem. What you seem to lack is versatility.

Even a few Alexander runs ago, I tanked with a full VIT geared PLD who had a DPS of 162. Man that sure helped the team alright. Doing another round of mechanics sure helped the healers keep his HP up and their mana costs down.