Curious on opinion. Smn or Mch. Which would you pick?

[Leonus]

If you're referring to my example math with the "1000 DPS each" thing, that was all just examples using round numbers for simplicity's sake, not necessarily accuracy.

However, you quoted a post where I only mentioned the slash debuff as an additional DPS increase that Ninjas can do for themselves and didn't give a value to, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Nah, just pointing that out. I just don't want anyone thinking it's a flat 10%.

Other than that, I enjoy reading you and other people's debates, even though you and I are on opposite sides of it.

[Minorinz]

Actually, if you read the quote you posted, healer DPS isn't taken into the calculations...

Did you even read the part where I said it was optional dps for dungeons? Skipping context for your own convenience is quite over the top, I must say this is sad. The best part is I have to repeat it over until it sticks, sigh.

If you read the article I linked which I doubt you did, Yoshi talks about how healers boost the dps output when people are challenging new content. In the case of raid content, healer's dps is absolutely a huge boost not because the party is not preforming well but because the whole party is actually under geared which was the case for T13. I'm not surprised that you are clueless about this, nothing new.

You are saying it's elementary school math?!?!?! I guess that means SE needs some serious help with their staff to be missing such a chunk of WD without any notice?!?! Shame on them. Except it's not. Although I'm curious to why they are scaling weapon damage differently for bard and ninja. I think at this point adding boost weapon damage will change things about bard because weapon damage doesn't work as a straight 10% damage buff as WM. Not surprised that you thought it was really.


The best quote ever!

And I play a Bard and know how high it can be.

I didn't say it was super low. I said it shouldn't be balanced around a minority of the game.

Thank god mission accomplished. In this case I want a summoner buff please. Also a monk buff. While you are at it please buff machinists. I've seen badly played jobs so can we please buff them and balance them all because they are the majority of the playerbase?

That logic though. Still not surprised, although it is funny. Thank you!

[Kona_Nightwind]

OP these answers help you decide yet?

[Aiselia]

If you read the article I linked which I doubt you did

I did read it. He clearly states repeatedly that they don't take into account healer damage when designing the things.

As such, "Healer damage" is not important if you're doing it the right way, which includes gear.

I never said healers don't do damage ever. I said that healers have to heal, so I don't consider Foe's as "always useful" for them because they're not going to be always attacking, and certainly not for the minute-straight that Foe's can be up, unless the Tank is significantly over-geared for the dungeon or incredible at damage mitigation.

Or if it's a SCH in a low level dungeon, but you wouldn't have Foe's there anyways.

After all, that was about the use of Bard songs in non-Raids compared to other class' utilities. Remember?

You are saying it's elementary school math?!?!?!

Well yes. Around here, at least, we learned that if something is at 100 and another thing is at 90, then that second thing is 10% lower than the thing at 100.

You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

Not surprised that you thought it was really.

This loses a lot of sting when it's coming from someone who apparently didn't even know about the weapon damage difference.

Anyways, this is my last post here because of several reasons, not the least of which is the straying from the actual topic.

But also because you're not even paying attention to what I'm talking about before going on irrelevant tangents about raids, so... no point.

The right way? I don't know what game you're playing, but the ffxiv I play; the off-tank and 2nd healer (SCH) have huge dps uptime.

I don't know what forum you're reading, but the post I made, I didn't say anything about having DPS uptime.

I said healer DPS wasn't taken into consideration when designing encounters, and therefore is, if everything else is "correct", bonus, not needed, which was proven correct by the interview that somebody thought was proving me wrong.

I believe the concept that the lower weapon damage of BRD/MCH doesn't actually mean they do largely lower DPS in real fights is lost on you, before talking about Foe's/Hypercharge.

I didn't say they do.

You'd think at some point, people might notice that I'm not saying they're largely lower. At least not at this point. I think the concept of "reading what someone's saying" is lost on a lot of the anti-bards.

However, we are still at the beginning of this expansion, of course. Time will pass, the gap will grow as stronger weapons get introduced.

[Kona_Nightwind]

snip.

The right way? I don't know what game you're playing, but the ffxiv I play; the off-tank and 2nd healer (SCH) have huge dps uptime.

[Sleigh]

You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

I believe the concept that the lower weapon damage of BRD/MCH doesn't actually mean they do largely lower DPS in real fights is lost on you, before talking about Foe's/Hypercharge.

[Renryuu]

OP these answers help you decide yet?

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

Thats dissapointing, im sad that it swayed your decision such. The support DPS in this game are very important in endgame raiding, and very potent outside of it as well if played well. You will never ever be a detriment if you play it well- BUT play what you enjoy! If that is SMN, then play SMN!

[RiceisNice]

...(

As I've and a couple of other people mentioned a while back, play the class you like or feels comfortable to you. There's no strictly defined role on whose support or not, and it's not enforced in party match making. They're all perfectly feasiable, but that's not to say that some could use some adjustments here and there. You could go into alex or EX primals without a MCH or BRD because none of those fights are tuned to absolutely require a specific party composition or class.

That might change with cutting-edge end game content like alexander savage, but that doesn't pickle your interest (or you can't find a static), there's really nothing to worry about.

[FreeLancer4]

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

The only real legit concern for the class, besides perhaps a few small tweaks (Suppressive Fire Range...) would be the play style change. Those who used to main bards(and now MCH) did so largely for the mobility which the class hasn't really lost, but to play optimally now means staying in GB/WM for as long as possible. They are completely viable in all content, but as I mentioned in a much earlier post in my opinion require more from the player to play optimally. If you enjoy it and can play it at an acceptable level, then you have nothing to worry about and assuming your denied because of your class, then you'd typically want to avoid those kind of people anyhow.

My endgame dps crew in 2.0 was SMN BLM BRD NIN. Our BLM and NIN have taking leave for various reasons and our BRD has taking a liking to NIN. We've filled one dps spot with a MNK, and assuming we can find an adequate Caster, I may yet switch from SMN to MCH main, as I have very much taking a liking to the job. While SMN is great, don't let the petty (and often stupid) debates on these forums here stop you from enjoying MCH.