Curious on opinion. Smn or Mch. Which would you pick?

[Aiselia]

If you read the article I linked which I doubt you did

I did read it. He clearly states repeatedly that they don't take into account healer damage when designing the things.

As such, "Healer damage" is not important if you're doing it the right way, which includes gear.

I never said healers don't do damage ever. I said that healers have to heal, so I don't consider Foe's as "always useful" for them because they're not going to be always attacking, and certainly not for the minute-straight that Foe's can be up, unless the Tank is significantly over-geared for the dungeon or incredible at damage mitigation.

Or if it's a SCH in a low level dungeon, but you wouldn't have Foe's there anyways.

After all, that was about the use of Bard songs in non-Raids compared to other class' utilities. Remember?

You are saying it's elementary school math?!?!?!

Well yes. Around here, at least, we learned that if something is at 100 and another thing is at 90, then that second thing is 10% lower than the thing at 100.

You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

Not surprised that you thought it was really.

This loses a lot of sting when it's coming from someone who apparently didn't even know about the weapon damage difference.

Anyways, this is my last post here because of several reasons, not the least of which is the straying from the actual topic.

But also because you're not even paying attention to what I'm talking about before going on irrelevant tangents about raids, so... no point.

The right way? I don't know what game you're playing, but the ffxiv I play; the off-tank and 2nd healer (SCH) have huge dps uptime.

I don't know what forum you're reading, but the post I made, I didn't say anything about having DPS uptime.

I said healer DPS wasn't taken into consideration when designing encounters, and therefore is, if everything else is "correct", bonus, not needed, which was proven correct by the interview that somebody thought was proving me wrong.

I believe the concept that the lower weapon damage of BRD/MCH doesn't actually mean they do largely lower DPS in real fights is lost on you, before talking about Foe's/Hypercharge.

I didn't say they do.

You'd think at some point, people might notice that I'm not saying they're largely lower. At least not at this point. I think the concept of "reading what someone's saying" is lost on a lot of the anti-bards.

However, we are still at the beginning of this expansion, of course. Time will pass, the gap will grow as stronger weapons get introduced.

[Kona_Nightwind]

snip.

The right way? I don't know what game you're playing, but the ffxiv I play; the off-tank and 2nd healer (SCH) have huge dps uptime.

[Sleigh]

You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

I believe the concept that the lower weapon damage of BRD/MCH doesn't actually mean they do largely lower DPS in real fights is lost on you, before talking about Foe's/Hypercharge.

[Minorinz]

I did read it. He clearly states repeatedly that they don't take into account healer damage when designing the things.
As such, "Healer damage" is not important if you're doing it the right way, which includes gear.
I never said healers don't do damage ever. I said that healers have to heal, so I don't consider Foe's as "always useful" for them because they're not going to be always attacking, and certainly not for the minute-straight that Foe's can be up, unless the Tank is significantly over-geared for the dungeon or incredible at damage mitigation.

That's normal for you to say because you don't raid and it seems you also turn a blind eye to good healers in dungeon who even ask for foes. Btw, yoshi does say that healer's dps is needed when they are pushing on content while being under geared or barely on the mark. Lucrezia did it so that's proof right there.

Or if it's a SCH in a low level dungeon, but you wouldn't have Foe's there anyways.
After all, that was about the use of Bard songs in non-Raids compared to other class' utilities. Remember?

Foes is considered a bard utilty and you will always have a healer in 4-man dungeons. Whether you like it or not that foe will always be optional just like any other job on utility, it's up to the player on how they wanna maximize.

Well yes. Around here, at least, we learned that if something is at 100 and another thing is at 90, then that second thing is 10% lower than the thing at 100.
You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

I was being sarcastic hence the "?!?!!?" spam. jeez. This is no fun. I am fully aware on how WD works but you aren't, hence why you think that if SE buffs their weapon damage it'll fix whatever you think it will.

This loses a lot of sting when it's coming from someone who apparently didn't even know about the weapon damage difference.
Anyways, this is my last post here because of several reasons, not the least of which is the straying from the actual topic.

From someone who think they are being stung, this is hilarious. Again, I know how it works and I never bothered to track every weapon and compare. SE has their own damage measurement tools and they know how to equate them.

But also because you're not even paying attention to what I'm talking about before going on irrelevant tangents about raids, so... no point.

You've been nitpicking lines and twisting them out of context whenever you please, so I have no comment on that statement of yours. As for low level content, SE isn't stupid to "balance" bad players to reach up to other well played jobs. That argument is very silly. Bard does lower damage than other jobs but it's not significant that it would make the job a burden.

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

I'm so sorry to hear that, support jobs are tough to play when being as to how they should be. I remember back in 2.0 when nobody wanted a summoner for FCoB and bard was guaranteed a spot. Let me say this though.
Finding a really good summoner that knows how to play the job 100% is not like finding a bard that knows when sing, minimize mobility and maximize damage output when at 90% of being perfect. Same about machinist. In the end, it's up to you. Enjoy playing summoner!!