Strength Tanks and You.

[nekuxdesu]

Vit until you don't die, and then str

Is it so hard to understand?
If you don't need the vit don't wear it.
Wearing one in alex with i180+ gear (especially with hive wep lol) is unacceptable, you already have a silly amount of hp and proper cooldown managment will assure that you never die.
Have a bad healer? That's on them, don't baby them, make them grow up and git gud. This baby mentality is not only hurting your run clear times, but also hurting the growth of the healers in the current meta.

It's almost as pathetic as tanks doing sub 325 dps and sch's doing sub 300 when everyone is geared.

[Gyson]

Just did a raid with my Tank, the other tank was all Vit, I was all Str.

Needless to say, he couldn't pull aggro off me and we wiped multiple times. We eventually did it, but I had to literally stop attacking.

Teamwork? If you're doing a tank swap and you see the other tank taunting, ease up and let him have since that's the plan. It's not a contest, you're supposed to be working together on this. It's ridiculous to think you can go all out and the other tank will magically keep threat. If that were the case you would never be tanking because then it would be impossible for you to hold threat against him. In a two-tank fight, one tank will always be in the position where they are having to manage their threat like everyone else.

[nekuxdesu]

Teamwork? If you're doing a tank swap and you see the other tank taunting, ease up and let him have since that's the plan. It's not a contest, you're supposed to be working together on this. It's ridiculous to think you can go all out and the other tank will magically keep threat. If that were the case you would never be tanking because then it would be impossible for you to hold threat against him. In a two-tank fight, one tank will always be in the position where they are having to manage their threat like everyone else.

What? That's literally what tank stances are for.
If a tank is doing 200 dps (which ive seen some do in alex floor 4) they deserve to be shit on, especially in this case where you can easily overgear content by 20ilvls

[SirTaint]

Maybe you didn't do content before being overgeared for said content (or you had echo on or you were offtanking).

I usually go full vit on my paladin (for maintanking progression content) and full str for my war (for offtanking).

My achievements are open to the public.

[BlackenedTiamat]

Its all about balance, and synergy with your healers. Some healers can keep a full str tank alive. Like my static sch . We talk before going into anything. If we agree i can wear full str accessories i will. Its followed by a "ill heal Black" comment at the beginning of the instance too. A1 is a prime example. A4 too really. The ot just needs to know how to stance dance for the orbs and pop a cd. Gg2ez.

[Gyson]

What? That's literally what tank stances are for.
If a tank is doing 200 dps (which ive seen some do in alex floor 4) they deserve to be shit on, especially in this case where you can easily overgear content by 20ilvls

I know what tank stances are for. But if you're helping to create a situation where your group "wipes multiple times" because you refuse to compensate for the current makeup of your team, whose fault is that? If one tank is generating as much threat as they possibly can, and yet the other keeps ripping it off despite having the option of reigning themselves in, then the fault lies with the latter. The former can not do anything about the situation once they're in the dungeon with you - there's no "new gear on demand" option for him to have air dropped in. It's up to the latter to ease up on the gas. Is it annoying? Sure. But it sure beats causing multiple wipes and wrecking everyone's mood because you have epeen issues.

Hence the suggestion for "teamwork".

[Noxifer]

DPS results from the last Ravana EX I did, which included and all VIT/Parry built tank and me a full on STR tank. I can tell you right now the numbers were in the high 200s for him and 720 for me.

All I see the VIT tanks doing for DPS is in the 300s. I am doing close to 700. That's real life experience, not dummy damage.

Well... Considering you've stated that you yourself is among the top tier tanks, it doesn't make much sense to compare you with STR gear to less top-tier tanks in VIT gear. The best comparison would be for you to compare your own damage in VIT vs STR. That would give a clearer picture on how much a STR build can be expected to increase a tank's damage output.


I'm not a top tier tank, I'll readily admit that. I'm still doing my best to improve, but I know I'm not even close to getting those extreme 11.2k crits off of Fell Cleave -- I'm happy with my 4-5k crits with Berserk and Slashing debuff. (I'm mix-matching some str accessories with vit, but will most likely commission crafted accessories from my crafting FC members at some point.)
I prefer OTing, partly because there are so many other tanks out there who go "my epeen is bigger than yours, I must be MT" and I just don't see the point in making the effort to argue unless they fail, and partly because it means I can keep up both SE and SP. Does that reduce my average DPS since I don't use the BB combo? Probably. But it means that any NIN in the party doesn't need to decrease theirs by keeping the debuff up unless I'm distracted by adds, and it means that the healers' job is easier due to slightly lower damage output by the boss.
(For things that can be solo-tanked, I usually just tell my group, "Pretend I'm just a really tough, low-performance DPS :D")

[Tyrial]

Snip

Already posted this in the other thread.

Full STR - 898 STR/703 VIT - Left side is Hive axe, 180 head, body, hands, 190 legs, belt and feet. Right side is 180 neck, earrings, ring, 190 ring and wrists. No food, no party buff, no pot.

(03:42) Encounter: 998 YOU-Fell Cleave-6306
YOU | 998

Full VIT - 710 STR/880 VIT (not counting attribute points). Left side same as above. Right side is all 180 with one 170 ring.

(03:50) Encounter: 742 YOU-Fell Cleave-4683
YOU | 742

Both were done in Deliverance, using the exact same rotation. This was done against a training dummy, but the numbers are consistent in Raids and Primals as well.

[Noxifer]

Math

Thanks =D

So, yeah... I don't quite see the 300 vs 700 dps difference there ^^; But going from ~750 to ~1000 (even if against a dummy) is a both reasonable and significant improvement =)

[Tyrial]

Thanks =D

So, yeah... I don't quite see the 300 vs 700 dps difference there ^^; But going from ~750 to ~1000 (even if against a dummy) is a both reasonable and significant improvement =)

That's as a WAR, I have seen full VIT PLDs and DRKs who do nothing but their standard enmity combo who barely break 400.