Ending the Parry debate once and for all

[Zfz]

Precisely! STR accessories means you just clear that content that much quicker. An inflated HP pool doesn't help as much as more damage going out if your group is skilled enough.

If your group is skill enough, adding a few hundred dps doesn't help except "that much quicker". That's all.

1. STR helps you push phases and win fights that you otherwise would have failed; and
2. if your group is skilled enough you don't need the VIT anyway

But if your group is skilled enough, you don't need that few hundred dps anyway. If your group is good enough your few hundred dps as a tank is not needed, as much as that few thousand HP isn't needed as a tank.

If your group is good enough. If your group is good enough is the premise on any and all STR arguments. Yet they act as if even the best of best groups need your few hundred dps, while the truth is in a group that is good enough, your tank dps increase of 400dps doesn't make a significant difference.

Even bad PLD tanks can easily dish out 300dps, as 300 tank dps is "garbage" according to STR supporters. The difference between a bad PLD and a good WAR is less than 500dps. If your group is good enough, the 4 DPS together already gives you 4000~5000dps, while in a bad group with everyone at less than 500dps, the whole raid is doing 3000~4000dps.

VIT is always evaluated with a bad group. STR is always evaluated with a good group, hence VIT is useless as you fail more, STR is what gets you wins.

The truth is, besides the absolute top-end world-first competition, and the absolute low-end enrage raider, STR vs VIT doesn't make a difference. The 80% of the groups somewhere between the two extremes will be making mistakes and still winning fights, and both STR and VIT helps equally.

Don't mistake me as saying STR doesn't help. But it isn't always the necessity many people make it sound. Unless your group is having dps troubles clearing content, your STR wasn't the deciding factor making the win. Far from it. Only when you are hitting enrage and the fight is taking ages to complete, would your STR become the deciding factor.

[NovaLevossida]

Topic title is a bit presumptuous and a bit arrogant really.

[Ceodore]

Actually, with a good group, VIT LITERALLY adds no benefit. Even assuming your DPS are amazing and perfect and pulling 5-6k DPS, your additional 3 or 400 DPS from STR means you're now at 5.3-6.4k DPS, or about 6% faster. That means you have now contributed about enough DPS to equal a rank 3 melee limit break. Don't underestimate that additional 300-400 DPS.

Topic title is a bit presumptuous and a bit arrogant really.

What's your point?

[Launched]

If your group is skill enough, adding a few hundred dps doesn't help except "that much quicker". That's all.

More DPS always helps, it doesn't matter if it's progression or farm. Having enough to get 5 bennus instead of 6 at final coil made the fight so much easier. Getting 4 after a few weeks of drops made it even easier still. DPS lets you push phases and skip mechanics, it's easily worth the effort to maximize.

[Ayanno]

What's your point?

Presenting an argument, no matter how well written or informed, with a presumptuous and arrogant tone is the fastest way to get people to tune you out and ignore it. Nobody likes being talked down to, regardless if the person talking down to the other person is correct or not.

You attract more flies with honey, then with vinegar, as the saying goes.

(I have no comment on the rest of the thread)

[Ceodore]

Presenting an argument, no matter how well written or informed, with a presumptuous and arrogant tone is the fastest way to get people to tune you out and ignore it. Nobody likes being talked down to, regardless if the person talking down to the other person is correct or not.

You attract more flies with honey, then with vinegar, as the saying goes.

(I have no comment on the rest of the thread)

People often assume someone is arrogant when they are correct. It's much the same way that Christopher Hitchens was considered arrogant when he spoke, but it was in fact just because he was correct about what he spoke of. It isn't that people just get offended when they are talked down to, it's that they get offended when their opinions or ideas are proven or shown to be bad ones. Perhaps, people should come up with better, smarter ideas in the first place than get offended when their bad ones get torn apart. Honey is for my dinner rolls and vinegar is for my stew. While the honey is sweet, the stew makes a better meal.

[NovaLevossida]

People often assume someone is arrogant when they are correct. It's much the same way that Christopher Hitchens was considered arrogant when he spoke, but it was in fact just because he was correct about what he spoke of. It isn't that people just get offended when they are talked down to, it's that they get offended when their opinions or ideas are proven or shown to be bad ones. Perhaps, people should come up with better, smarter ideas in the first place than get offended when their bad ones get torn apart. Honey is for my dinner rolls and vinegar is for my stew. While the honey is sweet, the stew makes a better meal.

In case the other poster's point was lost on you, this is why no one wants to eat your food.

[TouchandFeel]

People often assume someone is arrogant when they are correct.

And people that are arrogant often believe they are always correct.

One can make insightful commentary, make correct argumentative statements and do so tactfully. Expecting people to interact with others while practicing at least a baseline of courtesy and respect is not being a "social justice fluffy bunny", its simply not being an ass.

[Ceodore]

And ideas that are wrong should be shunted. That was the point of this thread from the get go, but everyone wanted to make it about their feelings. My original post was not insulting anyways. It was stating cold hard facts. It was only in subsequent posts that people started talking about their feelings and how they felt offended that so many ideas were shown to have errors and problems. I'm not here to hold anyone's hand and tell them their flawed suggestions are so good. This is a suggestion post, people need to stick to actually talking about the suggestions and leave their feelings at the door. If I'm wrong, then my ego and feelings won't get in the way. I'll admit I am wrong. However, I have yet to see someone prove my suggestion wrong. It's just been 4 pages of people whining and calling me names with nothing constructive or really helpful to say about the actual topic. Call me an ass if you want, but it doesn't make me wrong.

[Zophar]

Just came in to say, this is the internet. There is no such thing as ending a debate.