Are the Twelve Primals too?

[Rashammel]

IMO this is like in the graphic novel Sandman and in The Shintoism, "gods" are everything worshiped by someone, so All primal are essentialy god,but like was said on MSQ what the people summon is not the true god, just the aspect of what they want from the god.
Ifrit,Garuda and Titan = Rage
Ramuh = Protect
Shiva = Kind of "Protect"
The King Thordan = Power

[Dyvid]

IMO this is like in the graphic novel Sandman and in The Shintoism, "gods" are everything worshiped by someone, so All primal are essentialy god,but like was said on MSQ what the people summon is not the true god, just the aspect of what they want from the god.
Ifrit,Garuda and Titan = Rage
Ramuh = Protect
Shiva = Kind of "Protect"
The King Thordan = Power

Yea, it seems to be they are worship a character from folklore turned real by aether. Not sure if they have the base desire of the deity though or if it's desire is based purely on the "summoner".
Ifrit desired more thralls
Titan to drive man out of the mountains
Garuda was to destroy everything
King Mog was devour
Leviathan was to drive man out of the sea
Ramuh was solitude
Shiva was the truth about dragons and man
Bahamut was mad rage
Ravana was conquest
Bismark was to devour
Thordan was power

[PArcher]

IMO this is like in the graphic novel Sandman and in The Shintoism, "gods" are everything worshiped by someone, so All primal are essentialy god,but like was said on MSQ what the people summon is not the true god, just the aspect of what they want from the god.
Ifrit,Garuda and Titan = Rage
Ramuh = Protect
Shiva = Kind of "Protect"
The King Thordan = Power

I'll disagree with the "aspects" you've chosen.

Garuda is fleeting like the wind; insane.
Ifrit is insecure, power-hungry, like fire.
Titan is a father who is protecting his children, the earth.
Ramuh is the judge, quick and decisive like lightning.
Leviathan is water, a powerful fluid force to protect and destroy.
Ravana is conquest.
Bismark is hunger.
Shiva is the desire for peace and reconciliation.
Good King Moggle Mog XII would be fear, and the desire to be safe.
Thordan is arrogance in power, and I'll throw Enkidu in as loyalty.
EDIT: Forgot Bahamut, who is the rage of a conquered people, and Phoenix, the hope for a better tomorrow.

[jomoru]

Based on Unukalhai's statement regarding the Warring Triad and Dark Divinity, I'm now inclined to consider the Twelve to be eikons rather than primals.

Primals have no base existence outside the Ascian summoning ritual. So in that the 12 exist they aren't primals. Of course this also means there might in fact be True variants of Primals(We know for example there was a real Shiva and Bahamut)

[WyrahFhurrst]

Primals have no base existence outside the Ascian summoning ritual. So in that the 12 exist they aren't primals. Of course this also means there might in fact be True variants of Primals(We know for example there was a real Shiva and Bahamut)

I believe Zohar was referring to the Allagan use of Eikon, which means warring god if the Japanese translation is any indication. As opposed to the Garlean usage of Eikon, which is simply their term for any Primal. Eikons to the Allagans came from another world and could not be defeated in any permanence (Odin, for example, and the Warring Triad, both of whom had to be trapped); they simply kept showing up over and over.

[Dyvid]

Here is something to ponder. We know the Ascian are the ones who taught the Allagan to summon Bahamut and imprison him in Dalamud. We also know that Louisoix tried to imprison Bahamut in the same way using the power of the Twelve. So the real question is, who or what are the Twelve?

As for the primals, and this is all conjecture, I believe they are based real figures from folklore.

Ifrit was most likely a spiritual leader of the Amalj'aa.
Titan was a great leader and protector of a the mountain.
Garuda was bloodlust warrior of the Ixali.
Levithan was Great Clutch Father who tamed the seas for his Sahagin children.
Ramuh was a wise hermit of the Twelve Woods who guided the slyph.
Shiva well was Saint Shiv.
Good King Mog was the 12th Moggle Mog.
Bahamut was Bahamut.
Ravana was a Gnath conqueror.
Bismark was Vanu Vanu who lead the tribe to Sea of Clouds.

[PArcher]

Good King Mog was the first Moggle Mog.

The Primal Good King Moggle Mog XII is based on a moogle chieftain (Moggle Mog XII) from the Churning Mists who aided the future Twelveswood Moogles in getting to the world below after disaster struck their home...

[Dyvid]

The Primal Good King Moggle Mog XII is based on a moogle chieftain (Moggle Mog XII) from the Churning Mists who aided the future Twelveswood Moogles in getting to the world below after disaster struck their home...

Fixed for you. He was the 12th Moggle Mog in the line

[Zari]

Well I would only actually consider the 12 primals if people would actually "physically" summon them with aether like all of the other ones we have seen, since that seems to be the current definition of a primal.

For example, Ifrit himself wouldnt be a primal, but the form of Ifrit summoned by the Amalj'aa is a primal

[lololink]

Fixed for you. He was the 12th Moggle Mog in the line

Not really, the good king moggle mog was actually just the chief of the mogs that remained in the sky, his real name was mogglog.