Strength Tanks and You.

[Stormrider]

You don't sound like you understand how threat works. DPS is the single largest factor in threat. I mean I can go hold threat without my tank stance up in any fight you want to name.

My point is that the game is built around not having str build. That they don't expect tanks dps to be that high and it is counteracted by abilities that have lower dps but higher hate generating ability. I would also beg to differ about dps being largest hate generating ability in the game over healing would like a word with you.

[Alexika]

My point is that the game is built around not having str build. That they don't expect tanks dps to be that high and it is counteracted by abilities that have lower dps but higher hate generating ability. I would also beg to differ about dps being largest hate generating ability in the game over healing would like a word with you.

I never lose hate to healing, so explain how healing would be the biggest threat gen?

[Kiteless]

So basically your example is a tank that for some reason could not stay alive could not hold hate. You don't see how silly it looks. Not sure about DRKs but they are a turtle tank like pld? But I am pretty sure PLD abilities that hold hate have little to do with dps and have built in hate mechanics. Unless I am missing something.

In fact I might even go so far as to say a PLD might be able to hold hate without doing any dps if he had unlimited MP? I am sure we have all lazily flashed and not bothered to target a trash mob that some dps is blowing all its cooldowns on, or thrown a provoke and a flash.

Will this help you beat an encounter when you are short 10%. No the extra dps squeezed out will be great. But I think we are talking about base tanking and pugging groups.

Nope, all enmity generation from any of the tanks comes from strength. Even the enmity from Flash. A PLD with more strength will always generate more enmity than a PLD with less.
Enmity generation is based off of damage, with modifiers for enmity-combo attacks and your tank stance. For example, Rage of Halone has a 5* enmity modifier, and Shield Oath has a 2* enmity modifier. That means that you'll generate 10* as much enmity as the damage you do with a single activation of Rage of Halone while in Shield Oath.
Flash skips the damage bit entirely, but still scales entirely off of strength. If you don't have strength, you don't get hate.

So while a PLD might be able to hold hate without doing damage if he were given unlimited MP, it'd be stupid not to do something.

Also, healing only ever gives trouble with hate when the healer is an asshat and insists on precasting regen.

[Krylo]

Snip

Remember that you're talking to warriors and DPS stance gives them a flat 5% damage increase and access to things like fell cleave.

[Evaddaragon]

My main is Warrior. Evandis Shieldheart, Sargatanas server.

I am on a PS4. I will reach out to the person who has the DPS results from the last Ravana EX I did, which included and all VIT/Parry built tank and me a full on STR tank. I can tell you right now the numbers were in the high 200s for him and 720 for me.

So that account is an alt. Makes sense.

It can't be that simple, still. I'm pretty sure that other tank has some horrible rotation and/or skill usage. >.> More than double the damage when you don't even get close to that a bonus from gear... there have got to be other factors involved. LOL

[Stormrider]

Really you just said dps was the highest. I am sure if you are watching the add ons you are running that healer is second or close to second. Again your abilities have built in hate. BUILT IN. Dps is a bonus it is not dependent.

[Evaddaragon]

Remember that you're talking to warriors and DPS stance gives them a flat 5% damage increase and access to things like fell cleave.

Yeah, there's that, too. He/She is a WAR, and I'm trying to compute what he's/she's saying from a PLD perspective. Still, I recall SwO PLDs being not that far behind from WAR pre-3.0. Are Fell Cleave and Deliverance THAT good ? The nerf bat is definitely eventually coming to them if that is the case.

[Krylo]

Really you just said dps was the highest. I am sure if you are watching the add ons you are running that healer is second or close to second. Again your abilities have built in hate. BUILT IN. Dps is a bonus it is not dependent.

The extra enmity isn't 'built in'. It's a multiplier based on your damage. If memory serves, I believe it's 2x for the stance and 3x for any abilities that say 'increased enmity'.

Edit@Above: Pre 3.0 plds in DPS were better DPS than wars in DPS stance, while Wars in tank were better DPS than plds in tank.

I'm not sure how much that changed and it's highly dependent on things like weapon speed (plds benefit from weapon speed where no one else really does because of how sword oath works).

Now War is probably better in damage regardless of stance, and that's by design. War are meant to be a little squishier (which they are, pld has got massive self heals, and a lot of extra mitigation heading into 60, though they did get some extra damage with their new combos too), but crush it on damage. Fell Cleave can easily crit for 5k+ and you can berserk -> fell cleave -> infuriate -> Fell cleave and possibly get a third one off in the berserk window for completely ridiculous spike damage.

[Alexika]

Really you just said dps was the highest. I am sure if you are watching the add ons you are running that healer is second or close to second. Again your abilities have built in hate. BUILT IN. Dps is a bonus it is not dependent.

Actually my off tank is the close second.

[Kiteless]

Really you just said dps was the highest. I am sure if you are watching the add ons you are running that healer is second or close to second. Again your abilities have built in hate. BUILT IN. Dps is a bonus it is not dependent.

No, the hate scales off of the DPS.

And healers are rarely close to second. If the OT is a WAR, it'll be him for a far second (enmity combo being part of their highest DPS output, afterall), usually with a melee DPS not too far from that. Healers only ever get high on aggro tables during times of excessive AoE healing against single-target encounters.