Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[Hundred]

yes and thats the problem while you may know when its coming not everyone does and this is sort of a guide for people on weather to use STR or VIT as a tank. so while you know what to use and when to use it some dont and will look at this like "o... look at all the people recomending str, maybe i should use it." while not haveing a clue on how to mitigate the damage they are taking properly. therefor it would be better to have the extra "cushioning" that vit gives you.

But thats the main point of Vit. You run Vit because you don't know the kind of damage you take. When you do know the damage you're going to take it generally reveals itself to be less then the amount of Vit you have currently so you start dropping Vit.

Vit is still valuable and frankly after running it and doing parse brags, I don't find full slaying very attractive either. Melds are delicious.

[Yorumi]

People came to these conclusions from extremely old tests which have not changed. If anything, as mentioned previously, we are back to 2.0 levels of stat weights anyways right now (except slightly worse for not having STR and DEX influence parry potency and rate).

This is some of the things that make me suspicious though. So they just nerfed the hell out of parry for essentially no reason? It would make more sense that they changed things in reaction to this. The thing is I'm not expecting significant results just wondering what's better. I get red flags because people seem to be hating parry for not good reason. They say stacking vit is doing nothing and then say to meld vit into crafted accessories. When mixing fending/slaying accessories they present a false choice between str and parry etc. I'm perfectly willing to accept parry sucks if the math shows that, I'd just really like to see some real proof of that rather than people's feelings.

[Disc]

yes but whats stronger about 100-200 extra tank dps for going full str or the extra 500-600 extra healer DPS when they don't have to spend the entire time keeping your low health bar from going to 0...

That is not how raids work. Because fights are scripted the healers will know exactly when to have you topped off & when they can leave your HP to regen/selene. Their strongest abilities are also DoT & can be cast during the cool down time of Cleric Stance, so they do not need to worry about staying in it for long periods of time. A healer who can't handle stance dancing should not be worried about DPS, because they just aren't good enough to take on that responsibility.

[Ashkendor]

The thing is we even have people saying the tanks stacking parry suck. Now perhaps the math will show that it's a bad decision but can we really blame a tank for stacking tank stats?

I stacked vitality and parry when I was new. It's actually really common because coming into the game and assuming you're going to stack tanking stats on your tank isn't exactly a huge leap of intuition. I actually melded Parry on my relic initially, partly because it was hella cheap to do and partly because I thought it'd be at least marginally useful. Later on I yanked all of the Parry off of it, along with optimizing the rest of my gear to shuck off as much Parry as I possibly could and replace it with Det/Crit. I went from 700-800 Parry down to the 400-500 range. My static's healers didn't even notice a difference. I didn't tell them in advance when I was changing, either.

Yeah it's anecdotal, but it's all the proof I really needed to tell me Parry isn't all that effective.

[Yorumi]

Yeah it's anecdotal, but it's all the proof I really needed to tell me Parry isn't all that effective.

But that's just it, everything with parry is anecdotal, and anecdotal evidence is prone to providing wildly false impressions. And we're talking before 3.0 here. We know stats changed since then. It's even worse because we're talking about something that will only be noticeable over long durations. We have several pages full of anecdotal evidence but all it leads to is people blindly picking sides. Person A say parry sucks, person B says it's great, neither provided a shred of real evidence so we'll just throw darts at a board an say everyone else sucks.

I just find it astonishing in a game that runs on mathematical formulas, everyone's position of parry is based on absolutely nothing concrete at all.

[SirTaint]

But that's just it, everything with parry is anecdotal, and anecdotal evidence is prone to providing wildly false impressions. And we're talking before 3.0 here. We know stats changed since then. It's even worse because we're talking about something that will only be noticeable over long durations. We have several pages full of anecdotal evidence but all it leads to is people blindly picking sides. Person A say parry sucks, person B says it's great, neither provided a shred of real evidence so we'll just throw darts at a board an say everyone else sucks.

I just find it astonishing in a game that runs on mathematical formulas, everyone's position of parry is based on absolutely nothing concrete at all.

Parry is actually so dumbed down the only variable is your parry rate. Unlike 2.X when many factors played in.

We know parry always parries 20% of an incoming physical hit.

We know it takes 32-36 points of parry to increase your base percentage by 1%. Base parry is 7%.

If you were using BiS Fending (throw up) gear and Almond Cream Food your parry rate would be 572. 572-354 which is a 6-7% gain. So 14% of incoming, Physical only, damage is mitigated by 20%. (wearing shit gear, eating shit food)

Now factor in while mobs are using an ability (red dodge circle or cone) your parry is doing nothing, when a mob is using a magic attack your parry is doing nothing, when you don't have hate your parry is doing nothing.

[SirTaint]

That is not how raids work. Because fights are scripted the healers will know exactly when to have you topped off & when they can leave your HP to regen/selene. Their strongest abilities are also DoT & can be cast during the cool down time of Cleric Stance, so they do not need to worry about staying in it for long periods of time. A healer who can't handle stance dancing should not be worried about DPS, because they just aren't good enough to take on that responsibility.

This times 1000, good healers don't care what my HP is as long as its enough for the encounter. Their heals and DPS are mapped out ahead of time and every healing job has an Oshit button just like tanks do.

[whiskeybravo]

I'll entertain the parry debate and try this weekend to see if I can provide any substantial evidence of parry's "lackluster" return. If anyone wants to do their own testing, I've come up with the following test:

Straight parry build, ignoring item level, just equip as many pieces with parry to max the stat as high as inventory allows. We aren't concerned about defense or str or vit or anything. Parry is flat 20% so we are just looking for how many times it procs. Test area in Azys Lla around the research facility entrance. (I'm thinking these are lv60 mobs but not sure, any other suggestions would help)

Straight anti-parry build. Equip anything and everything without parry, trying to get parry stat as low as possible.

I'm thinking 20-30 min test of both builds, just testing the frequency with which an attack is parried, should give us at least a smidgen of insight as to how effective or ineffective a parry build may be.

[SeraviEdalborez]

I'll entertain the parry debate and try this weekend to see if I can provide any substantial evidence of parry's "lackluster" return. If anyone wants to do their own testing, I've come up with the following test:

This is a fine test just to see how parry scales but others take note that, like dummy DPS parses, this is indicative only of ideal circumstances. Anytime you're not tanking, or being hit by a magical attack, parry's contribution is 0%. Because 3.0 reinforced that every tank can be a perfectly serviceable MT or OT, all tanks should be prepared to not be in full VIT.

Alex4 Savage for example, if virtually the same as the normal mode, has no parry-able on the main boss.

[Yorumi]

I'm thinking 20-30 min test of both builds, just testing the frequency with which an attack is parried, should give us at least a smidgen of insight as to how effective or ineffective a parry build may be.

I think there's a few things that need to be checked for. I think the most important thing that needs to be known is the shape of the parry graph. You should test a few different values of parry to see if it's linear, curved, tiered or whatever. I'd test if I had the gear available right now to do it. Actually I think the graph is all we need to know. Once that's know we can accurately predict the effects of parry and make comparisons to other stat options.