Bard - they broke my job

[ruskie]

When there are mulitple targets for aoe I will generally multidot(or if there is one enemy that is extra strong I will just keep the dots on them)+keep refreshing them while quick+all the procs of rain of death - I should multidot without wm though I guess since the setup takes a bit.

[Choko_TS]

Don't flip the entire playstyle of a job that has been mained for 2+years on its head.

Thats the best QoL

^this, nuff said.

[Choko_TS]

There is no point continuing to post on this thread lol. I'm not reading 80 pages.

Dont read and feel free to leave then ? Its more then obvious, what we want. But hey, I forgot. People with brains of the size of a peanut cant do an easy math such as 1+1.
Like seriously, we dont really need to tell and figure out any solution. Its a nice extra, if we do but it's entirely SE's job to keep people motivated and make them stay. We're, what they want. We are the money. It's totally their job to provide satisfying solutions. Its not our job to do their work .. and I'm pretty sure SE knows as well, why people are mad and upset.

[Snowaeth]

Dont read and feel free to leave then ? Its more then obvious, what we want. But hey, I forgot. People with brains of the size of a peanut cant do an easy math such as 1+1.
Like seriously, we dont really need to tell and figure out any solution. Its a nice extra, if we do but it's entirely SE's job to keep people motivated and make them stay. We're, what they want. We are the money. It's totally their job to provide satisfying solutions. Its not our job to do their work .. and I'm pretty sure SE knows as well, why people are mad and upset.

Aikaal has some solid points though.
He is very number oriented and bard in its current state can actually output damage, so he's having a hard time understanding our issues.

But I can't blame him when the bards themselves are having problems to unite and point out exact problems.

There are tons of bards that all have one or multiple of these issues:
Playstyle change
Mobility change
Fluidity of rotation
Dps (compared to x class)
Non bards having x issue with bards
L2p issues
Bitching for the sake of bitching
Bards that actually like the current state and don't want change from how it is now

Now how is SE supposed to fix this mess?
Sure they created it, but if we don't voice our solutions or make our problems more exact other than just saying we are disappointed, they might leave it as it is or make changes that you still won't like because you didn't voice what it is you'd like them to do exactly or what it is that you dislike exactly and why it is a problem.

[Choko_TS]

Now how is SE supposed to fix this mess?
Sure they created it, but if we don't voice our solutions or make our problems more exact other than just saying we are disappointed, they might leave it as it is or make changes that you still won't like because you didn't voice what it is you'd like them to do exactly or what it is that you dislike exactly and why it is a problem.

Well true, SE cant satisfy everyone - Not telling the current bard cant compete with other classes, thats not the point. Its just the unique playstyle, they took from us without leaving a choice. They took us our choice and if we dont adapt, we're basically screwed. (Just to be clear, everyone choose a class cause he likes it. Casters wanted to be Casters, Melees wanted to be Melees, Bards wanted to be running chickens, which seem to have nervous and slippy fingers.) And there isnt any solution we can offer unless they make changes, so we can flip and jump around again, as we wish.
And honestly, we dont need to "voice, what we'd like them to be". Its totally clear what people want. Its up to SE to do something. Im glad for the people who like the changes, but right now, there are way more people who dislike it. And usually the ones with the bigger numbers wins. In my opinion, its pretty clear, what SE should do. Try to find a way to rework Bard, so it can be mobile like in 2.0, without cast times, but doesnt completely screw the new skills. Rework them, making bard more of a support class. Ik, Ik, SE already stated there isnt going to be any official Supportclass. But screw it. They either give us mobility and high potency/DPS to be a real DPS or, if they dont like the fact of a mobile and high dps class, they give us lower potency, basically like back then, with a few newer supporting skills. Crit-raising Song for example. I can perfectly imagine plenty ways to change the new skills into useful songs for the entire raid or a single person. They still have machinist, if they wanted a ranged physical caster. Its a new class. People who like it, can stay with machinsit while people still have the choice to be their beloved Bard. I dont see the point to have 2, basically identical classes. Only difference is their weapon and some small differences. That would be the choice we want. Either staying Bard aka 2.0 Playstyle or be a Machinsit, 3.0 playstyle.

[Duelle]

Try to find a way to rework Bard, so it can be mobile like in 2.0, without cast times, but doesnt completely screw the new skills. Rework them, making bard more of a support class.

I'll disagree here. You can have a class with utility still providing decent or equivalent DPS (as I've mentioned before, this is the only game where utility warrants notable nerfs to DPS whereas WoW's devs and community haven't convinced themselves shaman DPS should be on the floor just because they have buffs via totems). Also keep in mind that all DPS in this expansion have gotten utility. Lastly, I'd rather not mess with party dynamics.

A complete change to make BRD decent DPS isn't really necessary. It would require something like cast times added to existing shots and working procs around those. A popular thing was that if shots have cast times, procs would help bypass them to create opportunities for mobility (procs making a shot instant, for example) or simply make for smooth flow of combat.

They still have machinist, if they wanted a ranged physical caster. Its a new class. People who like it, can stay with machinsit while people still have the choice to be their beloved Bard. I dont see the point to have 2, basically identical classes. Only difference is their weapon and some small differences. That would be the choice we want. Either staying Bard aka 2.0 Playstyle or be a Machinsit, 3.0 playstyle.

Machinist is on a similar spot, actually. While its design does work better with Gauss Barrel, it is still clunky as hell.

In a perfect world where this mess was avoided, BRD would be the mobile ranged DPS while MCH would be somewhat stationary and have shots that interact with each other.

[yamochan]

A complete change to make BRD decent DPS isn't really necessary.
.

this is the thing i disagree with you on and for a simple reason as well if the bard can not put out the same dps as the rest why would you pick a bard in raid after progression is done. because while we have our place thx to manasong/tpsong as long progression is going on,
after you cleared the fights and everyone knows what to do the healers wont need as much mana anymore and thats the point when u look on dps and say "hey bards doing less lets take something else." NIN for example wich has better dps and a very good raidbuff for boss dmg.
so after progression bard and porbably mecha as well just falls out of the group for that simple reason.

[Greywolfamakir]

so after progression bard and porbably mecha as well just falls out of the group for that simple reason.

If some encounter of Alexaner Savage doesn't need support, I mean, TP or MP regen, BRD and MCH are not necessary, It's a fact, that is a good reason for every BRD or MCH should take a second Job like MNK, NIN, DRG, SMN or BLM.

If You play like BRD or MCH mainly, when support is not needed, just change to a real DPS job, It's not "cry", it's just a fact. You will bring better DPS for your party if You have a second real DPS Job, and You are gonna be able to help your static.

[Wigett]

I really don't know why they took the mobility away, it was fun, only use Wm now for openers and maybe some situation where I know im not going to be moving. imo, when they take a class that already has a pretty set play style, and completely change the style, it breaks the class, don't care about uber dps or all that, but adding WM and making it a caster, well that's like, someone, up top made a decision that they did not like bards so mobile.. so they did this. want more dps, use WM, learn when to turn it off and on. however, if you liked the way it played before and don't use WM your gimped .. thus, broke class, just because some idiots decided they don't like how mobile the bard is... please.... only real choice is to find another class that we/I enjoy, which is kind of a slap to anyone who enjoyed the mobile play style and was productive, .. those days are over.. sad ..I bet if they added some casting bars to many of the NIN skills you would hear the same crying..

[Greywolfamakir]

I really don't know why they took the mobility away, it was fun, only use Wm now for openers and maybe some situation where I know im not going to be moving. imo, when they take a class that already has a pretty set play style, and completely change the style, it breaks the class, don't care about uber dps or all that, but adding WM and making it a caster, well that's like, someone, up top made a decision that they did not like bards so mobile.. so they did this. want more dps, use WM, learn when to turn it off and on. however, if you liked the way it played before and don't use WM your gimped .. thus, broke class, just because some idiots decided they don't like how mobile the bard is... please....only real choice is to find another class that we/I enjoy, which is kind of a slap to anyone who enjoyed the mobile play style and was productive, .. those days are over.. sad ..