Bard - they broke my job

[Snowaeth]

I think Bard is quite a simple job rotation wise. That always depends on the person.



You fail to provide any Potency per second (PPS) if your argument. If you have too many OGCD, the obvious plan of action is to take a priority list for the biggest Potency move. This is where you should work on. There are scenairo that are obvious. Bloodletter > Blunt.

I'd also believe Poison Potion is a DPS lost for you if you can't move. It is only 250 damage. This applies to Repelling Shot as well. Then again, everybody is right when they say I don't play this job so I have no idea what I'm saying but since you can't provide any theory or maths of the potency on a spreadsheet that have detailed maths you actually don't have arguments against me.

It seems the main issue why this thread is still bleeding crying is a lack of OGCD management which usually is on the player side, not the job itself and this can be worked and improved. For the love of God, there's a Bard that almost top DPS a speed kill video that is from you FC, I remind you, and dealt 1239 DPS. Claiming 2 targets is not an argument as it is part of the fight and that its apply to everybody in the party since they stacked them.

If you intend to keep crying without seeing the obvious proofs, maybe Bard is not for you and you should abandon it. This reminds me a lot of the Summoner in 2.4 that would invest more time crying on their sake then working together to maximize the job. The exception is they actually had a valid reason in 2.4 because of MP. You do not have issue outside of an OGCD management. There's also the last point and I do not wish to attack or insult anyone but... WM actually requires you to pay attention and split the average with the good Bards. This is similar to Enochian for BLM, it separates the good and average BLMs. Fortunately personal skills can be worked on.

There you go again, pointing at dps numbers and the bard in FC.
I can keep up with the other bards just fine. And there are plenty of us that can play the bard in its new state.
But guess what, we are playing the game to enjoy it not to just put up the dps numbers in whichever state we are.

There are obvious priorities with gcd's/ogcd's. However you keep failing to understand the issue of bard playstyle that I am pointing at. It used to flow. Now it doesn't flow.

It's a playstyle issue, not potency per second, not dps all of that can easily be tweaked in case it is not on par, however the playstyle won't be as easily tweaked again and I don't want the bard to be thrown into a pre 3.0 Black Mage copy where the bard just like the BLM gets to ignore I don't know how many of their skills because they do absolutely nothing or have minimal situational use, that's not just shitting on the bards playstyle in the sense of movement, but also in the sense of how the job flows.

I am not sure how someone can promote homogenization to the point where we'r going to have Black, Gun and Bow mages with pretty much the only difference between them being aesthetics if it continues on.

So yea playstyle, no issues with cast times, do have issues with implementation of said cast times into the job kit.
No further numbers needed.

Also telling someone that enjoyed a job for the past two years to just go and reroll instead of trying to imrove it where it is enjoyable again to the actual players that picked that job in the first place and in many cases were playing the game because of that job is pretty shortsighted.

But I'm not sure if I can add a number to how shortsighted it is, so not sure if you will get my point there either.

EDIT: First time I get to experience a daily post limit on here so I will use this post to add my final say for today.

I ll throw in some bonus fixes that I think would improve the bard in WM and would require as little as possible chaning to how they work (focusing on number tweaks rather than mechanical ones as much as possible)

- Remove potency from Repelling Shot - make this a pure movement ability obviously put the potency somewhere elese. (Like back into Emperyal Arrow, Sidewinder or Bloodletter). Also add 10 yalm to the range from where you can activate it.
- Remove potency from Blunt Arrow - make this a pure cc ability obviously put the potency somewhere else. (Like back into Emperyal Arrow, Sidewinder or Bloodletter)
- Flaming Arrow castable even when casting other skills. Or if not possible to do that then: Flaming arrow is now a targeted skill that places the same aoe circle under the main target.
- Barrage has two modes now. The current one when in WM. And the old (but improved to compensate det nerf and lower potency outside of WM) 3 bonus auto attacks (so 4 vs old 3) when out of WM.
- Bloodletter is now usable during the cast of other skills. Or: Blooldetter can now store up to 2 charges when it proc's. (The double (or even tripple) charge stack would be more interesting)
- Heavy Shot has not only the current proc for Straight Shot but also removes the TP cost of Straight Shot when the proc happens and also has a 40% chance to proc Straight Shot vs the current 20%

- Wide Volley has become close to useless and needs a rework. I would personally lower its tp cost, make it single target and make it lower piercing resistance and then add a piercing resistance debuf to machinist too, to balance all physical dps to have their own ability of debuffing targets.

- Waren's Paen (The lvl 58 skill that is useless) needs some reworks. Make it last 45 seconds (so at the very least it has use pre-pull on warrior). Preferably go beyond just that though add actual esuna effect to it so it can be used to cure ailments not just hope you will prevent one in the next 30 seconds when it comes with a 3sec cast time. Or just look at it again really hard and make something more useful out of it than it is right now at least. If we'r copying BLM's why not make it a Physical Damage Apocastasis kinda thing instead.

Now after these changes would happen, some potency tweaking would be needed once again, but that's fine, potencies are the lowest concerns right now smoothing out the bard skill flow to actually be an enjoyable flow is priority.

[Aikaal]

Snip

So you are saying the Job is not broken and is viable for raid and it's a playstyle complain? Because the thread's name is "Bard - they broke my job" the reason I insisted on numbers.

I personally enjoy the game to maximize my performance and numbers and I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same. You can't use the word "we" because I would enjoy the level 60 Bard.

They changed the playstyle of the job you've played for the past 2 years. They did the same for my BLM and I have to deal with annoying stacks like Monks are while dealing with movement. I adjusted. If you can't stand then looking elsewhere is probably the best option for you. I do agree the 180 degree playstyle from Bard is rough but right now the Job works and nobody from your community seems to care to make a thread to see what you can do to deal with that playstyle. You'd rather cry until your body is dehydrated. BLM complained and cried a lot at the beginning and I include myself because I was pissed about the playstyle change of BLM but we got over it and adjust I don't see why Bards can't. On this domain, we are similar.

[RiceisNice]

...

They added onto blackmage gameplay by adding new abilities which function similar in concept. It's harder to manage for some people because windows are tigher, and you need to plan ahead to stay within ley lines. But the general flow of blm gameplay remains the same.

A better comparison would be that the only way you can swap from astral to umbral during enochian is through the use of tranpose, and tranpose can only be done at zero or max mana. Fire spells would sitll have the same mana cost, but oyu can still cast it even if you don't have enough mana to get yourself to 0. It sounds ideal in paper, but in actual gameplay its incredibly clumsy and its an utter slowdown compared to using fire III/blizzard III's half second cast time from umbral/astral to switch because now half the time you're sitting around waiting for mana ticks with 1 stack of umbral ice to have mana for your next blizzard, THEN waiting for tranpose cooldown because you're going to be reaching max mana in less than ten seconds.

Or you can not use enochian and play BLM as it was before those changes, but now your dps is balanced around using enochian. And even if you do happen to like that playstyle, people would probably be upset at how it's made to handle like that and flipping over a core BLM mechanic (that is, utilizing umbral/astral efficently through fire/blizzard spells, not twiddling their thumbs for tranpose like they would at level 30), when they can probably think of better ways to implement it without messing with what's already there, but instead adding onto it (such as the current version of enochian).

...Or giving summoner the concept of umbral/astral to manage their mana, because they might as well share the same concepts as BLM too as how MCH shares with BRD.

At the very least, try understand that some people (including me) are upset because bard's flow of combat is pretty stupid with WM active and not the numbers/dps. They're fine the way it is, I won't even disagree with that. Its annoying to all hell to see my procs get wasted because I'm in the middle of my cast times, and they happen half way into my cast time much like your firestarter (except straight shot is also a regular part of our prioirty list anyway, so have fun if it straighter shot procs during my straight shot cast). I can play MCH who more or less has the same playstyle as BRD because they're both balanced around utiilizing WM/GB, yet do it better because they're designed to do so, while BRD just gets it slapped on without a thought on how it meshes with their previous gameplay. And these are coming from (or me at least) full time bard mains.

[Reneo]

Ok so far the main complaints is the "fluidity" and mobility of the playstyle.

This whole mess with WM and damage and standing still. They gotta remove it.

Damage doesn't really matter to you guys right? Let them be as mobile as they want. Just don't ask for any more damage increase yeah?

Good.

[Aikaal]

tranpose can only be done at zero or max mana.

I stopped reading your post when you said that. There is no law that prevent me from using Transpose at full mp to use a F3 Proc when I'm in Umbral Ice.

At the very least, try understand that some people (including me) are upset because bard's flow of combat is pretty stupid with WM active and not the numbers/dps.

If you can deal the damage you are suppose to then it's up to the player to adapt.

Its annoying to all hell to see my procs get wasted because I'm in the middle of my cast times,

Bro, how many time I got 2 Procs in a row on my 2.x BLM rotation and I never cried to SE to fix it.

[RiceisNice]

Ok so far the main complaints is the "fluidity" and mobility of the playstyle.

This whole mess with WM and damage and standing still. They gotta remove it.

Damage doesn't really matter to you guys right? Let them be as mobile as they want. Just don't ask for any more damage increase yeah?

Good.

That generalization though. I didn't even ask for more damage back then, and even then, our dps is balanced around using WM anyway to do relatively the same damage as other classes in 2.0. In a nutshell, I am going to be doing less damage if I don't want to use WM.

Not every bard here wanted a damage increase during 2.0. I was pretty content with doing less than melee even on the likes of T13 since they can manage their earthshakers. I was relatively behind them by maybe 5-10% at the most. Right now, end game dps is balanced around utilizing WM/GB effectively to still maintain that 5-10% difference on average. I'm not doing "more damage", I'm busting my ass to do the same as other classes who also obtained new abilities, except I'm having a frustrating hell of a time to do so because my new abilities don't mesh well with how the class was previously designed.

I stopped reading your post when you said that. There is no law that prevent me from using Transpose at full mp to use a F3 Proc when I'm in Umbral Ice.



If you can deal the damage you are suppose to then it's up to the player to adapt.



Bro, how many time I got 2 Procs in a row on my 2.x BLM rotation and I never cried to SE to fix it.

>You stopped reading, why? I tried to come up with an example so you have an idea on how changing the base gameplay of a class because of an ability added in the expansion can cause problems for players who full time it previously.

>You're still on that...

>But would you agree that it's a design flaw? How about when it happens three-times over because your class clearly was not designed for it?

[AnnietheCat]

Damage doesn't really matter to you guys right? Let them be as mobile as they want. Just don't ask for any more damage increase yeah?

Damage does matter. But the fact of the matter is a great number of career bards do not enjoy this new play style. We can adapt to it, sure. But why adapt to something you don't enjoy? Why turn a video game that you pay to play into a job or a chore? Again, we all pay to play this and therefore ALL of our opinions should matter. Not just the people who enjoy the new play style and not just the people who hate it. All of the "suck it up or quit playing" nonsense is puerile at best. We are allowed to complain about something that strips us of our enjoyment. So while our dps output matters, how much we enjoy playing a game we pay for matters just as much, if not more.

[Aikaal]

>You stopped reading, why? I tried to come up with an example so you have an idea on how changing the base gameplay of a class because of an ability added in the expansion can cause problems for players who full time it previously.

>You're still on that...

>But would you agree that it's a design flaw? How about when it happens three-times over because your class clearly was not designed for it?

Because it's stupid to say you can only transpose at 0 MP. Transpose was handy when you had a proc during Umbral Ice to have a 1.4 multiplier F3 instead of 0.7 multiplier. While it may be a flaw to you, this does not decrease your DPS. Imagine a 2.x world where Black Mages were never losing double procs. BLM would have been king. It is not a flaw to me.

[RiceisNice]

Because it's stupid to say you can only transpose at 0 MP. Transpose was handy when you had a proc during Umbral Ice to have a 1.4 multiplier F3 instead of 0.7 multiplier. While it may be a flaw to you, this does not decrease your DPS. Imagine a 2.x world where Black Mages were never losing double procs. BLM would have been king. It is not a flaw to me.

So you're saying that if they happen to implement that change for whatever reason, its stupid. That's what I'm getting at if enochian was designed to force you to use tranpose at 0 or max mana =/

And I also doubt that BLMs will see a huge dps increase to the point they'd become "King". It's more of a QoL change to have procs happen when finishing the cast rather than finishing the animation, which is what I'd like for bard because again, MCH does this in the same manner except they're designed for it down to their animation speeds so they don't lose procs.

[Aikaal]

So you're saying that if they happen to implement that change for whatever reason, its stupid. That's what I'm getting at if enochian was designed to force you to use tranpose at 0 or max mana =/

And I also doubt that BLMs will see a huge dps increase to the point they'd become "King". It's more of a QoL change to have procs happen when finishing the cast rather than finishing the animation, which is what I'd like for bard because again, MCH does this in the same manner except they're designed for it down to their animation speeds so they don't lose procs.

Trust me. I was only 50 DPS behind melees on my BLM in FCoB. Allow me to never miss a single F3 proc and I would have pummeled melees. While it looked like a flaw, it wasn't. Same can be said for your multiple BL procs.