Oh, so FFXIV is pay-to-win? That's... stupid.

[Aeyis]

You still haven't explained WHY you keep so much useless crap.

I do believe I've mentioned the items I collect are not ''useless crap''

But you realize you ARE hording right?

I have no space to hoard. If I had 2 more retainers, only then would I consider collecting items just for the sake of collecting.

You can make your 5-star 1.8 mil craft items with less than a full inventory (Vanity Items are THE big market and there's no point HQing a stateless glamour item) and there is no reason why you shouldn't.

You only craft small time as you mentioned yourself.
The real money is in producing high level items (be they equipment or vanity) whenever the demand is present. For this you need to keep supplies. Whenever an item I've make sells I can replace it right away because I kept supplies of the materials.

What you say and what you're apparently doing are polar opposites.

It is?
It's pretty simple. I keep supplies of the items I will need. This includes one full retainer tab of (gathering and crafting only) materias, to give an example.

(And for the record, Allagan Crafting Mats sell really well on balmung. I made almost 40k off of three items from T5 today alone) So stop BSing and start prioritizing.

The 2 dawnborne Aethersand I gave my friend sell for 100-200k each (depending on the day). Prioritizing indeed. 13k for a single material is not exactly my defination of ''sell really well''
It goes without saying that selling prices differ per server. But I dont think 40k~ is a great price on anywhere outside of Gilgamesh.

[Rath]

I do believe I've mentioned the items I collect are not ''useless crap''

Material-wise what do you actually have filling your retainers? I am curious as I have all my crafts at 60 and have quite a bit of room, even holding all my randomly collected "junk" that I really won't ever use.

[Aeyis]

Material-wise what do you actually have filling your retainers? I am curious as I have all my crafts at 60 and have quite a bit of room, even holding all my randomly collected "junk" that I really won't ever use.

Hmm.

All HW ores, metals, stones, lumbers. Different types of (highlevel) whetstones. All types of HW cloth, and their raw materials. All HW skins and leathers. The raw materials are needed to leave the option of making HQ materials open.

Untradable dyes. Pigments for the regular dyes. Upgrade materials/off set equipment, glamours.
Crafting + gathering materias. Some hard to find housing materials/items. (IE: primal items)
HW Alch items.

In some cases (like skins) HQ materials are kept. A lot of the HW refined items require keeping stock of some other (lower level) materials as well.


How much you need to stock up on depends on your server. On larger servers I imagine a lot of items can easily be bought at any given time.



There is also a matter of accessibility. Simply having ''enough slots to fit items in'' is not enough if you access your storage often. You also need to be able to sort it all so you can quickly find what you need.

Its just a whinging point for people who want freebies. They give you more than enough to play the market by default. The exuse that this allows you to earn more and therefore buy runs is a piss poor straw man.

Uh-huh. The people who reason that retainers earn you an advantage, are actually the people who already make a lot gil in the first place. (in part due to their retainers)
How would we want freebies?


Your argumentation makes no sense.

<Shrugs> I've just been trying to understand why this is an issue.

So the basic reason I don't get the issue is the fact that I'm not a dedicated crafter and there for don't have a reason to play the markets.

As a dedicated high end crafter I can afford to only keep a few materials around. (that is, if I wanted to increase my costs/reduce my income) It is precisely the low level crafters that dont have much gil that really need to stock up on materials.

Because they cannot just buy items off the mb when the need arises.


As such im surprised you use a weak argument like this. If you dont care for having items, whether its for selling them or using them; then ofcourse you dont care about inventory space.

[Kaiser-Ace]

No the basic reason is that you trow away your entire inventory for practically free. With that in mind it makes sense that you never keep items around and thus dont see inventory space as a problem.


What baffles me however, is that you still ignore the part where retainers earn you gil. You dont need to be a ''high end crafter'' as you call them. All you need to do is send them on ventures to obtain items you can directly place on the mb.



PS: I kept way more items when I only had little gil to use on anything. You know as a level 10-40 crafter? I couldnt afford to buy items off the marketboard. As such I cannot understand the reasoning that ''im not high end so I dont need to keep items''.

What are you, so rich you can just buy whatever you want when you need it? If that is true, then indeed; you have no need for retainers.

Ok I'll address this in parts since there are a lot of separate points.

I'm a combat type player. I raid, I run dungeons, and make new combos and rotations that are both unique and effective. My Specialty lies in the Disciples of War disciplines though I am not object to using magic when the need occurs. Most of my actual inventory is in my Armory Chest which has on multiple occasions spilt over into my normal inventory. Any crafting or gathering I do is strictly for leisurely purposes to relax from the stress of the battle field. (Thus why my fisherman is well above all other DoL/DoH classes, just take a seat by a lake, cast a bait, and let the RNG do it's thing)

Now, on to the matter of retainers. My retainers are NPC banks and Arsenals to me. Thing is, gear has upkeep, and leveling classes means I occasionally need new items. (Which is perople like your competitors come in as I typically don't buy any thing over 20-30k from the MB as 100k is difficult for me to get quickly via the spoils of war) So the quick ventures I send them on usually pbing back compleatly worthless items that sell for less on the MB than to NPCs. A lot of useless loot I get in dungeons meets the same fate.

And as for the "Throwing away" my inventory, well I'm on a very large server, Balmung, and there for unlike your server, Crafting is competitive to the point where untill you are a High End Crafter with at least one maxed DoH class, there's no profit to be made. I've been to Zodiark, I've seen your population, and I've seen your markets, High End Crafters are few and far between meaning you have a verry monopolized market where as on balmung it's not uncommon for an item that was work 15k a piece the day before to drop to a few hundred gil and vise versa depending on who'd farming and crafting what that day. The Allagan leather I sold for 35k a week ago now is barely worth 10k due to mass farming of T5 by unsynced parties.

So, I've addressed my points quite validly where as you seemed to shoot more holes in your own argument than a lvl 60 machinist on an opo-opo killing spree.

Now that we've established our differences, what is your real argument for how you have any ground to stand on, because now I'm even more convinced that I should be taking advise from a lvl 1 noob than an "Expert Craftsman" like you.

[Rath]

Hmm.

All HW ores, metals, stones, lumbers. Different types of (highlevel) whetstones. All types of HW cloth, and their raw materials. All HW skins and leathers. The raw materials are needed to leave the option of making HQ materials open.

Untradable dyes. Pigments for the regular dyes. Upgrade materials/off set equipment, glamours.
Crafting + gathering materias. Some hard to find housing materials/items. (IE: primal items)
HW Alch items.

In some cases (like skins) HQ materials are kept. A lot of the HW refined items require keeping stock of some other (lower level) materials as well.

Why? Why? why?

These items are selling decently now, while people are leveling off of them and the markets are inflated due to this. These items should be sold, not stored. They will easily be cheaper in a week. I make and sell a good 20-50 chimera felts daily, and yet you said in a previous posts you had something like 300 manes? Last week those manes were 15k each, now they are 6k lol. It is like you invest in stocks when they are high and then refuse to sell them later because they are so low.

The samne goes for ores.
Adamantite ore last week 10k This week 6k Even HQ is down to 9k
Titanium last week 4-5k now 1.3k
Hardsilver, mythrite, Aurum Regis sands, etc etc. All are much much cheaper now then even 2 days ago.
Cloth items are the same
Pigments? Really? That is in fact hoarding lol.
HQ base mats such as skins should not even be needed by a high-end crafter such as you. I can see sometimes needing the high quality leather for a lvl 60 1 star item you are making for someone, but you should be able to HQ the leather yourself from NQ mats in your sleep. That is just an excuse to hoard imho.

Refined Alchemy items...well they are decent...but sell slowly as most people just leveled alch to 54 and can make anything they need when they need it for cheap as tears are down from 6k to 2k each.

Edit: I have a friend that gathers everything herself and hoards it all. Claims it saves her gil and blah blah blah. Her 4-man FC are all poor and were saving for a house. I made her sell everything she had in her retainers to me for 10mil gil. She thought she was ripping me off. I sold everything dirt cheap on MB for upwards of 12mil. She now has a large house and has made over 10mil since HW release (not EA either) mining and selling what she gets. She was making over a mil a day at first, now that has gone down to 200-400k she says (not counting dawnbore or maps as she uses those). Stockpiling all those mats does not save you gil. It costs you much much more in deflation and time lost gathering them to begin with.

If you choose to keep them all out of convenience, that is fine. But say it is for convenience. That is why people buy extra retainers, for convenience. She was actually contemplating buying 2 more retainers.

[Aeyis]

Hardsilver, mythrite, Aurum Regis sands, etc etc. All are much much cheaper now then even 2 days ago.
Cloth items are the same
Pigments? Really? That is in fact hoarding lol.

Im a crafter first most, not only a gatherer like your friend. Unlike her im still making millions a day even with heavy competition. Having stockpiled resources means I wont have to buy leather off the mb for 30k each every time someone decides to buy out the mbs stock.

I make and sell a good 20-50 chimera felts daily, and yet you said in a previous posts you had something like 300 manes?

I already used most of those. Thats the difference: You sell materials, while I craft those into items and sell them for more.

Im not sure how anyone can argue that keeping materials in stock doesnt save gil...

Edit: I have a friend that gathers everything herself and hoards it all. Claims it saves her gil and blah blah blah. Her 4-man FC are all poor and were saving for a house. I made her sell everything she had in her retainers to me for 10mil gil. She thought she was ripping me off.

I figured the earlier post was bait, replied in a straight manner regardless.



Incidentally im currently making a stock of HQ 1* materials. Im sure your also of the opinion I should be selling those on the mb now? I'm interested in what your thoughts are on this matter.


PS: if your friend only stored ''thrash'' theres no way her inventory would have been worth anywhere near 12m. Its well worth noting that the prices of some items will only rise in price as time goes on.


tl;dr:
Stocking items saves time/gil when you need them (or need them to produce something).
Mine is just an example of an inventory. If I had the time for it I would only stock full stacks of HQ materials. (as I stocked full stacks of NQ materials pre-HW) And no raw materials at all.
HQing that many items takes time I do not currently have. Especially not since retainers and other ventures bring in raw materials constantly, it is required to keep slots for raw materials as well.

[Rath]

Im a crafter first most, not only a gatherer like your friend. Unlike her im still making millions a day even with heavy competition. Having stockpiled resources means I wont have to buy leather off the mb for 30k each every time someone decides to buy out the mbs stock.
I already used most of those. Thats the difference: You sell materials, while I craft those into items and sell them for more.

Okay, taking your bait here. I was not baiting you btw, I was actually trying to figure out how to fill 2 retainers with current materials when I fit them all on me as a lvl 60 grandmaster of the hand/land. The Only HW item I have placed in my retainers is thav silk. That is just there until I get enough to use them.

First I sell the extra felts I make. I desynth 100 or 200 NPC items a day for various things as my desynth skills are 175+. I do not keep extras lying around. I sell leftover felts for 25k each now in stacks of 5 or 10, I used to sell them for 200k each. I make gathering and crafting gear from them and sell the rest. The same goes with anything I mine up. I mine when I want to make something and do not feel like buying the mats for it, maybe keep a few nuggets/ingots of HW mats in my INVENTORY, not on a retainer. I will either use them or sell them by the end of the evening. Everything you could possibly need to craft HW items fits on you, but you said you have them on retainers. That is not using them it is storing them.


You can buy skins for 2-3k each and make your leather, the people that buy those 30k leathers usually hand them to a crafter to make something for them lol. Also, I am unsure why you are making HQ 1 star mats, unless you mean you are making HQ mats that are currently used for lvl 60 1 star recipes, in which case I am still not sure why as they are easily HQ'd with NQ mats with melded gear. If you are speculating on the next set of recipes, I wish you luck, otherwise I am sure they will sit on your retainer forever and that is a pity.

As for my friend, she makes that much gil a day from selling gathering materials. I have not inquired about her crafting and other sources of income. She had stacks of items like volcanic rocksalts, dez tomatoes HQ, steel ingots, rosegold nuggets, food out the wazoo! All stuff that she had planned to sell or use at one point but then just never got to it because she was always getting other materials to sell. Some things sold as is, others I quicksynthed into stuff I could liquidate. Some shit I even listed on PF and sold bulk.

[Aeyis]

I make gathering and crafting gear from them and sell the rest. The same goes with anything I mine up. I mine when I want to make something and do not feel like buying the mats for it, maybe keep a few nuggets/ingots of HW mats in my INVENTORY, not on a retainer. I will either use them or sell them by the end of the evening. Everything you could possibly need to craft HW items fits on you, but you said you have them on retainers. That is not using them it is storing them.

I dont just have those on my retainers, I also have them on me. I simply shift them around depending on my current needs, as I dont have enough room in my inventory to carry them all.
My inventory isnt perfect by any means, but its a good example. If I had the spare time I would make the raw materials into HQ refined items, but that would require quite a lot of time.

Making them into nq is fast, but then you run into that problem where you need HQ star saphires but you only have NQ ones and no raw ones left. Or used your Darkchestnut logs for leather and now you have none left for Darkchestnut Lumber.


Selling things is good and all, but the problem is when you cant rely on market prices to be low. On my server its not uncommon for things such leather to be nearly completely bought out from day to day, raising its prices significantly when that happens.

Desynth is a useful way to obtain materials yes, but only if you have one leveled, and then only of a select type of materials.


I've already run into some issues because I decided to completely convert some raw materials into refined ones. While it saved up inventory slots it also cost me time because I no longer had the means to create them in HQ.

You can buy skins for 2-3k each

Prices vary on the server. Since people buy a lot of skins here they can get quite expansive.

and make your leather, the people that buy those 30k leathers

The ones that buy them here typically craft them into equipment items themselves. Because those sell for far more then the leather they are made of.

Also, I am unsure why you are making HQ 1 star mats, unless you mean you are making HQ mats that are currently used for lvl 60 1 star recipes, in which case I am still not sure why as they are easily HQ'd with NQ mats with melded gear.

Full melded perhaps. Materia prices are rather high on my server, so that level of melds isnt easy to obtain. HQing from NQ isnt quite possible below then. (not at a 100% or near chance anyway, which is a must have if you plan on selling)
The amount of good draughts is simply too high to HQ from NQ..

As for my friend, she makes that much gil a day from selling gathering materials.

Thing is, if she only stored worthless items her inventory wouldnt even be worth 1m. If you could sell it for that much then it was precisely because she kept valuable items.