Thoughts from a 60 AST & 60 WHM

[Rewind]

I think I'm justified in believing that AST does need something worthwhile that sets it apart. otherwise.

AST offers players the ability to heal through another play style - of course you are justified in believing AST needs something worthwhile to set it apart - As mentioned before I think AST would really benefit from some channelling chain heal spells to enhance its uniqueness and utility, in addition to card changes and some minor ability adjustments to actually make them effective.

My comment was originally just addressing the fact you mentioned the mana cost of helios making it seem like AST is responsible for topping the raid in such a way. The class hasn't been built to be a carbon copy white mage and healing as AST in such a way is just inefficient. That doesn't automatically mean that the way it is built now is correct or strong but for the time being people need to work with what they are given and wait for SE to address concerns.

If you're fine with not doing Savage Alex on AST, that's fine and good for you. But you don't get to just throw everyone else under the bus for that.

We don't know what composition will be best for savage. Maybe it will be dual SCH, maybe it will be double PLD tank, maybe it needs to be a fully ranged DPS party. Composition is not always going to be prefect and there are always going to be better classes to take to maximize DPS/Tank CDs/Healing Abilities. People can't take it personally if someone excludes something from a DF. Find a good group of people that actually consider the player behind the toon rather than the misconception that a class is "better than another". There are bad players on 'well built' classes too.

It doesn't mean good players on other classes can't achieve the same result.

[SuzakuCMX]

We don't know what composition will be best for savage.

We do know that AST likely won't fit in there since it is behind SCH/WHM in heal-to-mana efficiency, potencies, and tools to mitigate damage in every step.

Maybe it will be dual SCH, maybe it will be double PLD tank

Dual SCH likely won't work because shields don't stack and they don't have good enough AoE in most cases to top up the party. Dual-PLD might work. Who knows.

maybe it needs to be a fully ranged DPS party.

You joke about this, but 1.0 horror flashbacks....

Composition is not always going to be prefect and there are always going to be better classes to take to maximize DPS/Tank CDs/Healing Abilities.

Unless you're an AST, because you flat out lack any benefit to the party that SCH/WHM can't provide or do better. SCH and WHM both have enough secondary healing (Regen and Fairy/Adlo Crits) to be able to DPS and reach 300-400 DPS on top of Selene buffs. AST has to increase party's overall DPS by 300-400 to beat that, which they probably can't because of card RNG and being unable to sustain tanks for long enough to Cleric Stance vs. SCH who can still heal the tank while in Cleric Stance via Fairy, can E4E and Supervirus, Adlo Crit, etc. AST just can't compare to the healing of either SCH or WHM nor can it compare to the DPS increase you get from being able to DPS as those classes. WHM can Regen/Medica II/Stoneskin/E4E/Supervirus the tank and start DPSing in Cleric, and if either SCH or WHM let the tank get low because of their DPSing they have several abilities to recover, whereas AST has....Essential Dignity which probably won't help all that much.

People can't take it personally if someone excludes something from a DF.

Um, what? I shouldn't take it personally that my class is perceived as so bad that I can't actually do content without having to round up 8 people? So SE should just never balance classes?

Find a good group of people that actually consider the player behind the toon rather than the misconception that a class is "better than another".

Except anything you do on AST you will have done 3x better on WHM/SCH with much more ease.

There are bad players on 'well built' classes too.

Yes but that's the player's fault and not bad balancing's fault, and they will get kicked from the group whereas a bad class won't even be let into the content in most cases.

AST offers players the ability to heal through another play style

Right now it heals exactly the same as a WHM except with less tools and worse efficiency. Its playstyle is a pared down version, plus cards.

My comment was originally just addressing the fact you mentioned the mana cost of helios making it seem like AST is responsible for topping the raid in such a way.

AST is a healer. They were supposed to be designed to fill the role of either SCH or WHM, meaning they should be able to top up a raid after AoE damage. They can't.

The class hasn't been built to be a carbon copy white mage and healing as AST in such a way is just inefficient.

What are you talking about? Benefic/Benefic II are exact copies of Cure I/Cure II except they have less potency. Di Benefic is almost exactly the same as Regen except it has initial potency, but it's overall less efficient still. And Noct AST is just plain bad because while Benefic/Benefic II are more efficient, Noct Benefic and Collective Unconsciousness are complete trash while Noct Helios is just as bad as Succor was for doing anything.

That doesn't automatically mean that the way it is built now is correct or strong but for the time being people need to work with what they are given and wait for SE to address concerns.

So what you're saying is "AST healing is fine don't change it but that doesn't mean it's fine or strong, just lrn2play your class and wait for SE to buff it?" What was the point of even coming into this thread for you?

[Rewind]

Um, what? I shouldn't take it personally that my class is perceived as so bad that I can't actually do content without having to round up 8 people? So SE should just never balance classes?

Yes but that's the player's fault and not bad balancing's fault, and they will get kicked from the group whereas a bad class won't even be let into the content in most cases.

It doesn't mean good players on other classes can't achieve the same result.

Savage shouldn't be puggable in the first place (in the first couple of weeks atleast). If you're going in with AST you are going to need a static or a regular group of 8 people. If the other 7 people flat out say -no- you can't play a class that you enjoy then you should probably find another group to play with.

I could create a PF that excludes all people under 180ilvl- or is full melee, or double WHM or w.e I want. That's up to the PF leaders decision. There are plenty of other people that don't really mind what class you bring.

I've said it before that AST needs changes but it doesn't automatically rule it out from being capable healing in savage - WHM/SCH combos probably can do it easier (no doubt) but it doesn't mean other comps won't flat out work. All this anticipated failure before anyone gets a chance to actually play at a savage level.

[SuzakuCMX]

I've said it before that AST needs changes but it doesn't automatically rule it out from being capable healing in savage - WHM/SCH combos probably can do it easier (no doubt) but it doesn't mean other comps won't flat out work. All this anticipated failure before anyone gets a chance to actually play at a savage level.

The problem is that if Savage is tuned to be passable with AST healing even though it is miles behind in terms of ability to heal or DPS compared to SCH/WHM, it is going to be so laughably easy for WHM/SCH to heal through it that it won't be a challenge, unless the mechanics in Savage are just a ton OHKO's that have nothing to do with healing, in which case it's just gimmicky and bad game design.

It would be like AST equivalent to doing T5 no echo vs, WHM/SCH doing it at level 60 in an undersized party.

[lordparanoia]

I would be very disappointed if Alex savage would not require a high amount of healing...

[Rewind]

The problem is that if Savage is tuned to be passable with AST healing even though it is miles behind in terms of ability to heal or DPS compared to SCH/WHM, it is going to be so laughably easy for WHM/SCH to heal through it that it won't be a challenge.

I actually think WHM (and probably SCH tho its not capped at 60 yet) are too overpowered and received abilities that make the class faceroll to heal and not a challenge. I wouldn't mind SE waving the nerf hammer.

There are always going to be fights which are a joke for a specific combo to heal - Titan HM/Ext were joke to heal with two WHMs, T2 was faceroll with two WHMs and T1 was faceroll with two SCHs, along with T7.

AST could be useful with a planned Synastry in A4 when OT and a DPS are dragged away from the main arena - as far as I've seen the Synastry buff persists and I can indirectly top off a damaged OT.

[fanservice]

I actually think WHM (and probably SCH tho its not capped at 60 yet) are too overpowered and received abilities that make the class faceroll to heal and not a challenge. I wouldn't mind SE waving the nerf hammer.

WHMs and SCHs still get challenged in outhealing group SPS (stupid-per-second).


Anyway, I'm of the idea that they wanted all healers to be able to heal content with their barebones abilities, and have the tools to deal with contingencies, and they tried, but missed the mark with AST.

It's a bit... much to think square wants to make more super unforgiving content by nerfing classes instead.

[SuzakuCMX]

I actually think WHM (and probably SCH tho its not capped at 60 yet) are too overpowered and received abilities that make the class faceroll to heal and not a challenge. I wouldn't mind SE waving the nerf hammer.

Maybe, but why would you just nerf them if the fight is tuned to their healing instead of buffing AST? A lot of AST's abilities just plainly feel bad and Noct is clearly inferior to to Di, which is also not great.

There are always going to be fights which are a joke for a specific combo to heal - Titan HM/Ext were joke to heal with two WHMs, T2 was faceroll with two WHMs and T1 was faceroll with two SCHs, along with T7..

That is an AWFUL excuse to keep AST underpowered comparatively.

I still think all the complainers are just lazy.

Great way to start off unbiased.

But AST is NOT supposed to be as strong at healing as SCH and WHM.

Then why bother bringing AST along if you can't rely on their healing?

They are supposed to be handicapped

I like how you call them handicapped and yet call complainers lazy. Nice

and like Rewind said, there to sustain the party.

Which they are currently worse at than the other two healer jobs. Both SCH and WHM can sustain the party so well that they can begin to DPS.

However I still have been in the position as an AST to carry the healing, so far. Unfortunately there are very few super good healers out there. I'll be starting Alex today so we'll see.

Good luck in there. Alex isn't even hard.