Thoughts from a 60 AST & 60 WHM

[Risvertasashi]

This won't really be new info for many people but I thought I would add my experiences to the pile. I'll be focusing on AST since I don't think anyone is disputing that WHM is in a very good spot right now.

Background

For those that don't know, AST's core healing kit is basically this: Benefic (cure/physick), Benefic 2 (cure II), and Helios (medica).

What sets AST apart is Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios. In Diurnal stance, AB is similar to WHM's Regen, but front loaded. AH is similar to medica 2, though notably shorter ranged.

In nocturnal stance, AB functions as adlo and AH as succor -- but notably, compared to SCH, it retains spammable Benefic 2 for stronger single target heals (nocturnal stance's potency boost brings it pretty much in line) and Helios for spammable AoE -- ie, still a medica of sources.

Benefic, Benefic II, Helios, and Aspected Helios cost a little less MP than WHM's counterparts. Aspected Benefic is a little more expensive than regen, but much cheaper than Adlo. Luminiferous Aether, the MP recovery ability, has the exact same potency and duration as Shroud of Saints

Lastly, AST has a single "emergency" heal called Essential Dignity -- oGCD, 40 second cooldown, and only 400 base potency but this scales up as the target's HP decreases. In my own experience, it's an almost-full heal for low HP DPS.

Healing Comparison

I took both jobs to the level 60 dungeons at i166 with i170 weapons -- decently hard hitting mob packs and bosses. I did not take AST to EX primals as, after my experiences in the current dungeons...I did not feel up to healing harder content on it

For the dungeons, I would call AST's heals "sufficient." They can get the party through, and the mix of AoE and single target provides enough tools to get the basic job done. The main difference, I noticed, is that on AST I'm letting party members sit at low HP for a lot longer. If there is any complication -- DPS getting paralyzed by the Curator's mines, or the tank eating vulnerability stacks -- I found it was considerably harder to recover this on AST, and far worse for my MP pool.

I do not feel that Collective Unconscious is as bad some people make it out to be, at least in Diurnal Sect. Throw up HoTs before using it and it's some fairly potent healing. In Nocturnal Sect... I have a hard time seeing it used outside of a new Nerve Cloud mechanic, where all damage stops and then there's a very huge raidwide hit.

Mobility

Now here is what AST is good at. People knock on Diurnal Sect's 5% speed boost, but this lets the caster stutter step just that much faster -- and you don't need to stop at all if you get the Enhanced Benefic proc or, if you want to completely run and gun, pop Lightspeed.

The problem is this is a bit situational. It could have utility in Turn 12-like fights, or while learning something like Titan EX. However, outside of those circumstances, this is not particularly an advantage while retaining the downsides.

Also, WHM has gained a number of oGCD instant healing abilities now, strengthening its own mobility a bit and SCH has never really hurt that much from moving.

MP management
Ok... I've got to be honest. AST sucks at this. It's really bad. I try very much to make every spellcast count -- to get every last hp from every heal to mean something, to spend the absolute minimum MP I can to get others' health up... and I still run out. I start to panic when I see my MP reserves approaching their end and hope the DPS really gets a move on finishing it.

By the way, it's worth mentioning that even if I have the GCDs to DPS, I don't usually have the MP to spare.

Same boss (Curator), same tank, on WHM I can end it at 100% MP (no DPSing for comparison) and generally it feels much less stressful.

Numbers-wise I have a hard time pinning this down. Cure is very close to Benefic to HP restored and Benefic is actually slightly cheaper for MP, etc etc.

Mitigation and Buffs!
Ironically, in Diurnal Sect, I feel WHM has better mitigation than AST. E4E is pretty powerful, Stoneskin isn't what it was but it's not gone, and WHM Virus is still useful for those bigger physical attacks...and notably, it lasts a duration, while AST's disable affects just 1 attack (hard to use on anything without a cast time...).

Nocturnal Sect makes up for this a little, but at the cost of HoTs. I've mostly been focused on Diurnal Sect, so I'll leave AST's mitigation in Nocturnal to others' evaluation.

AST, however, has some very nice buffs. Although subject to some criticisms, if these buffs are landed at the right moment... for example, Spear just before a MCH/BRD blows all their cooldowns, Balance on a SMN about to go ham on Dreadwyrm Trance, Arrow on melee DPS generally -- it seems these can be pretty powerful.

The catch is setup -- it can take 1m+, if RNG is in your favor. If it's not, you might not get anything actually useful to the party for, well, who knows long. I feel this works better on trash phases with downtime, but feels harsher on bosses and hard-mode primals with a lot of uptime.

But my biggest criticism of cards is this. It feels bolted on. It feels like SE took a subset of WHM's core healing spells and then just threw cards on top of that. I wish cards were more central to AST's gameplay somehow. Instead, it's "play redressed WHM with 2 skills that feel a bit SCHly in the other stance, and every now and then do something with cards."

I'm not going to offer suggestions since I'm posting this as an evaluation.

Style and Aesthetics

This is very much an opinion but... I love everything about AST here. Celestial Opposition is easily my favorite effect in the game. The poses/animations, sound effects, the weapons -- everything generally, very well done. I love all of it. I want to play AST for this alone. WHM is flashy, but for style, AST is hands down superior for me.

Raid Viability -- AKA, Is It Worth It?

AST buffs are nice... but subject to RNG. Now, is it worth it? Here is what I think raid groups can anticipate in bringing in AST:

* More load on the other healer (less DPS time)
* Need for additional Mage's Ballad/Bishop Turret Support-Mode uptime
* Potentially less burst healing capability (depending on the other healers' capabilities)

My personal thoughts... I might take AST in to Alex a few times just to experiment, but I worry that (compared to WHM) it would just make it harder on my group for benefit I'm not too sure of.

If anyone has both SCH and AST to 60, and had time to play around with both, I would love to hear your thoughts.

EDIT:
MP Usage Revisited

Here is a post from reddit user glasswings that goes deeper into the theorycrafting behind AST's MP usage and recovery, compared to both SCH and WHM.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ain_astwhmsch/

[Khyan]

I play AST lvl 60 especially on nocturnal stance since I have a whm on my static. I don't have time to give you my feedback yet. I up my scholar to 60 (still 58 actually) because, personnally, I think without all the emergency heals from my scholar it will be too difficult (or even impossible) during savage raids for my static.

I've done Bismark EX with my AST and still learn Ravana EX final phase with it. But I feel my team is disadvantaged because of me when I could just take my scholar and make things much simpler. I still found some cool strat, like use synastry on the OT and heal MT while the WHM dps without problem and let me solo heal during a few seconds (I use synastry for keep more mana too).

In fact, AST don't have enough heal potency/emergency skills to be viable contrary to others healer jobs, and I can tell you (it's my opinion, of course) that AST seems not as usefull as SCH.

[lordparanoia]

I play AST lvl 60 especially on nocturnal stance since I have a whm on my static. I don't have time to give you my feedback yet. I up my scholar to 60 (still 58 actually) because, personnally, I think without all the emergency heals from my scholar it will be too difficult (or even impossible) during savage raids for my static.

This is the point.
Some people just don't understand the importance of emergency heals during progression. When people make mistake, or even when the co-healer can't provide a sufficient amount of healing (for many reasons), AST will begin to have problems.
Of course, AST is perfect for dungeons and duty roulette, but I think that a SCH or WHM will just shine more then AST in Alexander (savage).

[Risvertasashi]

I've been reading the replies as they come in -- thank you everyone for sharing your own thoughts and perspectives. Once Alex opens, I'm also curious to hear from anyone that tries both AST and another healing job in the raid.

Of course, AST is perfect for dungeons and duty roulette, but I think that a SCH or WHM will just shine more then AST in Alexander (savage).

My own thoughts have been running along these lines lately... AST seems more like a job I'll keep for dungeons or easier content; it's fun in a lot of ways, but the buffs might not be enough to offset the hefty drawbacks of the job. Well, tomorrow we can start experimenting and see...

[Lyrinn]

Absolutely 0 reasons to bring a AST over SCH. If AST substitutes for anyone, it's WHM, and even then ...

My biggest gripe with AST is the inability to DPS for extended periods of time. Diurnal regens aren't strong enough to keep the tank up for more than a few GCDs, and you can't let the tank's hp reach critical levels because you have limited emergency recovery options. Furthermore, unlike Holy, Gravity doesn't stun so it gives you even less leeway. I love healing as AST but whenever I look for windows to DPS, I wonder why I even bother.

[Eisenhower]

Absolutely 0 reasons to bring a AST over SCH. If AST substitutes for anyone, it's WHM, and even then ...

I agree on this point. Right now a scholar bring more reliable mitigation and group buffs than an astrologian - you get what you need when you need it. I can see astrologians replacing white mages when playing content a group is comfortable with, thus removing the need for a white mage's healing throughput and instead adding another layer of buffs. But astrologians shouldn't be pushed into that niche and aught to function paired with any of the other healing classes regardless of progression/farm level.

[kiraan]

I just finished leveling my SCH to 60 and tried it in Expert Roulette.

It's just a breeze compared to AST. You don't have to worry at all about your mana and you have all the tool you need in case something bad happens.

I like AST but the amount of extra effort is not rewarded enough compared to SCH. I can understand some parties that don"t want to take the risk of an AST, even if good ones can do the job properly, an average SCH can do it better.

[Alindra]

I haven't gotten to 60 yet, but for awhile I was leveling both my SCH and AST simultaneously. Dungeons were significantly easier to heal on my SCH. With my AST, even during trash mobs, if I made a single mistake, we would wipe. I often times ended fights with a quarter or less mana remaining, and since no one wants to wait around for me to get more, it just made things harder.

I've since given up on leveling my AST and and focusing solely on getting my SCH to 60. I love the playstyle of AST, it's fun and interesting...they just need some tweaks. I basically see it as, an AST can probably successfully heal everything in the game, it just will require more skill and frustration than a WHM or SCH.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Op, you asked for a scholar pov so here it is.

I originally leveled ast to be my main, replacing myself as scholar in my static. I cleared all the current endgame, including Ravana ex on my ast. My Whm partner preferred I use nocturnal stance for the shields, which, frankly, help a lot in progression and allow more room for error, especially with tanks still learning when to pop cds and the boss rotations. Unfortunately the shields are very mana intensive and break to every autoattack making our support dps give me mana at some point every pull. Because of the mana issues and weakness of the shields I don't think whm/noct stance ast is a good option. The two jobs are much better off just stacking their hots.

During healer down time I would stand around doing nothing, letting my Whm partner solo heal--rather than dps--to recover mana. When people took heavy damage I would rely on my partner to bring us back and had very few tools to help recover from a near wipe making recovery almost impossible or take much longer putting us at risk of failing the dps checks. The card buffs just aren't enough to make up the difference. My Whm partner argued what I'm going to say next, but I felt carried.

If I died my Whm partner could get me up and save us from a wipe. If he died it was a wipe. I just couldn't handle the heavy damage on my own with my group's gear levels. I'd go oom very quickly and have no reserves after sending a rez out.

Maybe a portion of my issue is my group's play style is more geared toward maximizing scholar advantages but I personally don't find ast can compete with a 60 scholar. Since clearing Ravana ex I've switched back to Scholar and the difference was huge in how much more flexibility I had with my fairy patch healing while I dps and the toolkit of emergency backup heals. Not to mention better mitigation with super virus, and E4E. Raid buffs were more consistent with Selene than with the cards making dps higher overall even when excluding mine. Her new aoe leeches skill is also extremely useful and I used it liberally in Ravana ex allowing my Whm partner to focus more on healing when dps messed up mechanics.

I feel like there were two different development teams. One team for the level 51-60 skills for whm/sch and a second team for the 1-60 skills for ast. The class feels more balanced for FCoB content at level 60 when comparing it to a 60 whm/sch with all the buffs they got this expansion. This is further evidenced by how the class hots stack for whm/ast but not for ast/ast. It makes zero sense why they allow for them to stack in one scenario but not the other when the regens of two astrologians would be weaker than whm/whm.

I do agree the ast animations are the best in the game. I love the mini universe effects. The astrologian lb3 is by far the best. Such a shame I won't be playing this class for Alexander.

[PinnyAerani]

Question then from a non-high level AST...Doesn't AST have a shroud of saints clone? And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't it have a higher renew potency than shroud of saints? How are ASTs having mana issues between that and ewer then? The name of the game is adaptability, not rock-solid rigidity, so "oh ewer is only good for eating for royal road" doesn't cut it: If you have MP issues, and you know you have MP issues, save it?