Thoughts from a 60 AST & 60 WHM

[SuzakuCMX]

And your oversight is to how I stated that it is lower potency and is more difficult to play ON PURPOSE. They aren't going to make it easier, because that wasn't what they wanted or planned on when they created the job. It is a complex job, where you must use all your skills correctly and timely to be successful.

Outside of the card mechanic the job is very simple. Making the job significantly weaker on it's main role (healing) is not making it "more complex." It's just making it worse than SCH/WHM. If AST could heal as well as SCH/WHM minus the use of cards or the use of healing buffs, then AST would be comparable. But it can't because its potencies are lower across the board in Diurnal, it lacks a way to stabilize the group, and it has nothing to fall back on when shit hits the fan. Nocturnal Stance makes the potencies exactly the same as Cure I/Cure II, but in that case your shield is awful and you still don't have as many tools to help with your healing.

[Dyvid]

snip

I was thinking about this. What if they switch Diu and Noct effect, then gave you the ability to switch in combat. In other words Diu would have the +5 healing potency and noct would have attack speed increase. Maybe even take it one step further where Diu is 10 to 15 percent higher heals but consumes more mp and Noct adds a slow refresh giving a whole BLM yen yang approach.

[SuzakuCMX]

I was thinking about this. What if they switch Diu and Noct effect, then gave you the ability to switch in combat. In other words Diu would have the +5 healing potency and noct would have attack speed increase. Maybe even take it one step further where Diu is 10 to 15 percent higher heals but consumes more mp and Noct adds a slow refresh giving a whole BLM yen yang approach.

Then Di is a copy of WHM and Noct has even less potency and their shield is weaker even though it still sucks. Celestial Opposition will still suck. Collective Unconsciousness will still suck for Noct as well. Buffs the strength of Di without doing anything good for Noct.

[Dyvid]

Then Di is a copy of WHM and Noct has even less potency and their shield is weaker even though it still sucks.

Diu is already a copy of WHM and Noct is a copy of SCH. WHM heals are reactive and SCH is proactive. Reactive is when you need more healing power while proactive gives you more time to dps and play with cards.

[SuzakuCMX]

Diu is already a copy of WHM and Noct is a copy of SCH. WHM heals are reactive and SCH is proactive. Reactive is when you need more healing power while proactive gives you more time to dps and play with cards.

Di has less potency across the board than WHM. Giving it the Noct bonus potency would bring it up to the same exact potency as Cure/Cure II while making the regen potencies closer to WHM.

In which case Noct now is missing the regen to make up for the lack of healing potency and also has the crappy shield that is instant anyways so is unaffected by the attack speed increase and it will suck even more because it's already too weak and now weaker.

This change just makes Di better than it already is and makes Noct completely useless. Di will ALWAYS be stronger for DPS/Cardplay because stacking the regen means you don't have to heal as hard, so you have more time to stancedance.

This change increases Di's strengths (healing throughput) while doing absolutely zilch for the draw of Noct (shields).

[Rewind]

Diu is already a copy of WHM and Noct is a copy of SCH. WHM heals are reactive and SCH is proactive. Reactive is when you need more healing power while proactive gives you more time to dps and play with cards.

Diurnal Sect is NOT a copy of WHM. AST simply are not as powerful as WHM and were never intended to "replace WHM" or "replace SCH"

AST is about sustaining the raid, WHM is reactive and SCH is proactive.

Nocturnal Sect needs a rework because it falls in none of those categories.

Also there have been comments about mana regen - As you become more comfortable with the class mana is less of an issue. WHM DO have better mana due to the addition of assize but AST mana regen is no more difficult to manage than WHM was in 2.0. Yes, the mana management is difficult at the lower levels but at full gear 60 there are no issues if you are utilising all your skills in Diurnal stance.

[Heinel]

Also there have been comments about mana regen - As you become more comfortable with the class mana is less of an issue. WHM DO have better mana due to the addition of assize but AST mana regen is no more difficult to manage than WHM was in 2.0. Yes, the mana management is difficult at the lower levels but at full gear 60 there are no issues if you are utilising all your skills in Diurnal stance.

MP management of 2.0 WHM is based almost entirely on conservation and the refresh ability really only helps a little. To say that AST is similar to WHM, even the 2.0 one, is incorrect. Having to spend 2k MP on 2 Helios to cover what a WHM can do with 1 Divine Seal Medica II is the very definition of inefficient. Sure, you'll not run into issues if you just let the other healer to take the disaster control role, but what does it say about your role? This is a team game. You must look beyond your own personal bubble and look at what the party needs.

[Rewind]

MP management of 2.0 WHM is based almost entirely on conservation and the refresh ability really only helps a little. To say that AST is similar to WHM, even the 2.0 one, is incorrect. Having to spend 2k MP on 2 Helios to cover what a WHM can do with 1 Divine Seal Medica II is the very definition of inefficient. Sure, you'll not run into issues if you just let the other healer to take the disaster control role, but what does it say about your role? This is a team game. You must look beyond your own personal bubble and look at what the party needs.

On the contrary you support my original point which you didn't quote.

An AST simply is not meant to be spamming Helios to top the raid. It's like asking a SCH to top the raid with succor on ADS turn 2 back in 2.0. Of course you'll oom if you play inefficiently.

Some part of the definition of team work is playing the best to your ability whilst working together. AST is very strong in managing the tanks, especially with synastry ready, through AOE damage whilst a WHM tops the raid. An AST is very strong at sustaining the raid with a constantly rolling aspected helios in diurnal stance (which is low enough potency to not have issues with enmity) and has enough power to top the raid, together, with a decent SCH which has been given greater utility to react to damage.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Outside of the card mechanic the job is very simple. Making the job significantly weaker on it's main role (healing) is not making it "more complex." It's just making it worse than SCH/WHM. If AST could heal as well as SCH/WHM minus the use of cards or the use of healing buffs, then AST would be comparable. But it can't because its potencies are lower across the board in Diurnal, it lacks a way to stabilize the group, and it has nothing to fall back on when shit hits the fan. Nocturnal Stance makes the potencies exactly the same as Cure I/Cure II, but in that case your shield is awful and you still don't have as many tools to help with your healing.

At first I was thinking the job would be more complex as well. But, after playing it now for a few weeks, it really isn't that complex. It's underpowered and only offers a very mild trade off. So, essentially, I agree with what you have said here.