The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Aiselia]

Remove melee ... limited range of attacking ( let them stand as far away as a caster, brd/mch) and lower blm potency on spells and make them all instacast and give sms nukes.

Translation: "I have no legitimate counter-arguments."

[Leonus]

Translation: "I have no legitimate counter-arguments."

I have already posted counter arguments, sick of reposting them for brds to counter what most posts look like translated: "I wanna be top dps, why can't I? I also wanna move however I want and beat our everyone" and "my songs don't do diddly squat! No one ever needs them!"

The answer is simple.

Make everything the same. Then no one can complain. Get rid of mechanics that require anyone to stop hitting the boss and balance around that.

Seems solid, no?

[Aiselia]

I have already posted counter arguments

Which is why I used the adjective "legitimate".

There's a difference between "Top DPS" and "Comparable so we're not a drain in the 95% of the game that doesn't require a TP/MP battery."

Until you understand that, you won't be making any legitimate counter-arguments.

[Leonus]

Which is why I used the adjective "legitimate".

There's a difference between "Top DPS" and "Comparable so we're not a drain in the 95% of the game that doesn't require a TP/MP battery."

Until you understand that, you won't be making any legitimate counter-arguments.

I personally have not failed anything because of a Brd/mch lacking in damage(unless the player themselves was truly bad). That's on the "pure" (can I use that right now?) Dps job just shifting their own lack of damage onto the (don't hurt me, please) "support" dps and no wanting tow own up to it. Who knows, maybe it's just me? If I were to "hypothetically" view a parse and see the damage numbers and we failed I'm looking at the melee and casters first and I'm gonna tell them to step up their game.

But, if we remove mechanics and give everyone every "support", dps, healing and tanking ability, no one can really complain. I am convinced of this now, we should do what needs to be done to quell the complaining happening now, as well as any that would arise down the line.

[Sessurea]

Any1 who can't see the use of brd songs is a self comfessed casual who doesn't raid or at least waits until max ilvl/echo comes along. If you can't see the use for BV paeon/ballad after a healer, tank or melee dies, then I have no words. inb4 typical dumb trees saying they don't EVER die in progression etc. Right.

[Aiselia]

I personally have not failed anything because of a Brd/mch lacking in damage.

That's cool. I have. We had 3 Bards in Bismarck HM thanks to roulette. Didn't have the DPS to prevent the wipe.

But hey, at least we were covered if we needed TP or MP, right? Clearly that was worth it.

[Sessurea]

That's cool. I have. We had 3 Bards in Bismarck HM thanks to roulette.

Done it with 4 brds , git gud.

[Aiurily]

1 brd/mch contribute more raid dps through their utility (tp so tanks/physical don't tp starve=dps gain, foes/hypercharge=dps gain, mana can be a dps gain even depending on what your healers are doing and dps comp) than any other class would, that's why you take one.

their actual dps contribution isn't easily topped atm, just as it has always been. if bards and machinists weren't a raid dps gain over taking another high dps class, no one would have taken them in any version of ARR. it's still the same way; and groups still take at least 1 bard/machinist.

[Aiselia]

Done it with 4 brds , git gud.

I wasn't one of the Bards. Tell them that.

Unless you think I somehow have control over every Bard, so my relative skill somehow means roulette is always feasible?

[Leonus]

That's cool. I have. We had 3 Bards in Bismarck HM thanks to roulette. Didn't have the DPS to prevent the wipe.

But hey, at least we were covered if we needed TP or MP, right? Clearly that was worth it.

Lol oh, hey i'be failed with a blm, nin and drg.

But I guess that's player's fault.

For the bards, it was the job.