I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[Verius_Nox]

1. You're not a mage, never at any point do I get the ability to drop a buff and all my spells are now instant cast until I reapply said buff. You have mobility still, but now if you want good damage you have to sacrifice mobility.

2. If you want competitive DPS with mobility and 100% up-time, then you're asking to be overpowered.

[Lewtskie]

Benediction is on a 5 minute CD and lustrate is no longer effective under cleric. Relying on a fairy on intensive healing phases is commiting suicidal. If you mess up switching to cleric when you really don't have to, you can perfectly wipe your entire party. We can hardly say the same thing about BRD and minuette.

I don't understand why you would pop Clerics anywhere near a healing intensive phase. And the fairy's buff easily evens out the load with the other healer until you can switch back out, and I'm sure Lustrate followed by a quick Adlo is sufficient as well. Bene you obviously want to save for shit moments, unless you like popping it just because.

[Raiker]

1. You're not a mage, never at any point do I get the ability to drop a buff and all my spells are now instant cast until I reapply said buff. You have mobility still, but now if you want good damage you have to sacrifice mobility.

2. If you want competitive DPS with mobility and 100% up-time, then you're asking to be overpowered.

They're not a mage, yes. Mages do a load more damage than bard. One hit of black mage = 3 to 4 hits of a bard under WM.

You do a hit, you do 3k damage, move. They do a hit, they do 900 damage, move. You're both casters now, they're significantly weaker.

And they never asked to be overpowered; according to various reddit posts and posts here, they want they're movement back and are willing to sacrifice a considerable amount of DPS if that's what it takes.

[Calypsx]

The stance has a 15 second cooldown upon use. It's not something you can switch on and off in a GCD like sword oath/shield oath.

Why not instead ask SE to make it share the same recast timer as Cleric stance instead of asking to outright remove it from the game?

Cleric stance makes healing in this game a lot of fun and adds a level of complexity that healers lack in other games. Having a turret damage like stance for bard and a stance that lets them move but do less damage also requires critical thinking and gives makes things more varied and fun.

I still think this sounds more fun than 2.0 bard.

[Melinabean0]

To be honest, I don't feel as if any of our core mechanics have been lost here. Characteristics, maybe, but mechanics, no. Nor have the 3.0 additions been much from a mechanical standpoint, probably because, honestly, the mechanics were still fairly barebones before, and aren't much more than that now. As such this whole 'return to core mechanics' thing is going over my head a bit; I can only see it as a job still, likely constantly, in development, and find that its latest stages, while personally enjoyable, leave a bit to be desired for the sake of options.

I completely agree with literally everything you have said. I was going to make a reply similar to the text above in regards to this:

That post was addressed to NON-BARDS who kept spouting nonsense that "Bards are wrong to complain" since they think that "Minuet buffed = more DPS! There's no issue here! Lrn2play!" even though the majority of Bards who are dissatisfied with 3.0 Bard aren't even complaining about DPS.

My earlier, lengthy post shows exactly what a large number of Bards are truly complaining about, especially those who rolled the class for its core mechanics and gameplay (aka pre-Minuet).

but you have put it together much better than my tired brain could have at this particular moment. So, thank you for said post.

[Raiker]

Why not instead ask SE to make it share the same recast timer as Cleric stance instead of asking to outright remove it from the game?

Cleric stance makes healing in this game a lot of fun and adds a level of complexity that healers lack in other games. Having a turret damage like stance for bard and a stance that lets them move but do less damage also requires critical thinking and gives makes things more varied and fun.

I'm a bit confused where this comparison to Cleric Stance came from. Cleric stance lower's the potency of one thing and raises the other while WM raise the potency of attacks, roots you in place to use anything, disables auto attacks, and only allows things like Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow to be used under the effect of WM. Not to mention you can't simply, click it, have it active, do something really quick, and un-click it.

Just want some clarification, not debating.

[Duelle]

I feel like I ought to ask: if you were to add actual mechanics to the job that would make the job more interesting without turning us into casters, what would they be?[/B][/I]

Here's something I cooked up a couple of days ago for the other bard thread. Far from perfect and some may even hate it, but I like to think it tries to keep ARR bard gameplay intact while adding to it.

[Calypsx]

snip

Healers generally always are rooted in place but they also have to switch between an offensive mode and a healing mode to play their role at higher levels.

Higher level Bard play due to them being a dps would be knowing when to go into cast mode and when to turn it off during moments that require lots of movements while still maintaining dps.

Essentially they are both stance dancing in their own way, different but still stance dancing. It would be better if they were adjusted so switching between the modes is as smooth as it is for healers with cleric stance.

[Raiker]

Healers generally always are rooted in place but they also have to switch between an offensive mode and a healing mode to play their role at higher levels.

Higher level Bard play due to them being a dps would be knowing when to go into cast mode and when to turn it off during moments that require lots of movements while still maintaining dps.

Essentially they are both stance dancing in their own way, different but still stance dancing. It would be better if they were adjusted so switching between the modes is as smooth as it is for healers with cleric stance.

I agree with the last statement. That could be solved by simply bringing the cast time to that of cleric stance then.

[Gallus]

I don't understand why you would pop Clerics anywhere near a healing intensive phase. And the fairy's buff easily evens out the load with the other healer until you can switch back out, and I'm sure Lustrate followed by a quick Adlo is sufficient as well. Bene you obviously want to save for shit moments, unless you like popping it just because.

I don't understand why you would pop minuette on a movement intensive phase.

See what I did there...