Bard

[Wavaryen]

Truth is. Devs said it was a DPS class. Now they are calling them support dps. I don't even know what the brd is anymore.


I am just going to keep calling it a dps class until I can sign up for a group as support. Support dps is the dumbest idea ever, Progression it is fine, but that is not all the game offers. If you are going to make a support dps, the support should at least raise the damage of other players. This class design is flawed and someone should feel bad for it.

[nbiscuitz]

The logical change for bard skill would be "you can not sing any song while in the stance", which turns us into ranger of some sort. Even just a 10% increase would be good. This way, it feels like 50-60 progression mean something. Not paying mobility/cast time/AA to increase dps (which it actually doesn't). Imagine giving WAR cast time too when they are in deliverance, give DRG cast time when in blood of the dragon, monk cast time when they have GL stacks...take their AA away also. Just taking our songs away is enough, then if we need songs, we lose 25% (stance and song penalty) total dps. If they really want to change the style of bard/archer, put this stance in level20 or something and make it a must use like tanking in a stance that actually increase our dps.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

The logical change for bard skill would be "you can not sing any song while in the stance". Even just a 10% increase may be would be good. This way, it feels like 50-60 progression mean something. Not paying mobility/cast time/AA to increase dps (which it actually doesn't). Imagine giving WAR cast time too when they are in deliverance, give DRG cast time when in blood of the dragon, monk cast time when they have GL stacks...take their AA away also. Just taking our songs away is enough, then if we need songs, we lose 25% (stance and song penalty) total dps. If they really want to change the style of bard/archer, put this stance in level20 or something and make it a must use like tanking in a stance that actually increase our dps.

That's the most stupidest comparison I've come across yet. They're melee classes. How the hell would placing cast times on melee classes be equal to placing a small cast bar on a highly mobile, ranged DPS class.

Jesus, people are just pulling random shit from the bag now.

Thing is, I completely understand if people are upset that they don't LIKE WM. I get that, and it's a shame it was tacked on.

What I don't get is the cries for more DPS for a class which has arguably the easiest ability to DPS in the game, with the least forgiving rotation, with the highest mobility.

[nbiscuitz]

That's the most stupidest comparison I've come across yet. They're melee classes. How the hell would placing cast times on melee classes be equal to placing a small cast bar on a highly mobile, ranged DPS class.

Jesus, people are just pulling random shit from the bag now.

Thing is, I completely understand if people are upset that they don't LIKE WM. I get that, and it's a shame it was tacked on.

What I don't get is the cries for more DPS for a class which has arguably the easiest ability to DPS in the game, with the least forgiving rotation, with the highest mobility.

you are stupid, if you can't even understand what i am comparing with, you should put that shit in your bag...As melee, you can lift your axe, wait for cast bar, then hit the mob. taadaaa~~ melee casting. And see, you don't like that do you!! As a melee, you can move around/through the mob as well. Melees also have higher dps to range anyway, which is fine by me. The point is that you get even more dps now by not PAYING A PRICE!!!!!

[Dervy]

Also I'm tired of this anecdotal regurgitated 2.0 Bard crap. People were not stacking Bards because their output was better then every other job. Post the math on 2.0 Bard vs 2.0 Melee/Caster potential. I don't want to hear a I saw this, and I heard that. Prove it, don't sit there and regurgitate this crap that you have no proof for. If you're not going to prove it don't bother bringing it up.

Clearly someone never raided Hardcore back in 2.0.

People stacked x3 Bard, x1 DoM, or x2 Bard, x1 Monk x1 DoM, or x2 Bard x2 DoM in 2.0 because:
1) Bards only dealt 5% less than a Melee in a vacuum (No songs)
2) Melees had a lot of difficulty with mechanics due to the insane animations on Jumps and Monks only had one Cap Closer every 90s
3) GL3 only increased damage by 23%, Heavy Thrust was 10%, along with other abilities being very low Potency. Their DPS on paper was extremely low and due to their lack of mobility, people only ever ran 1 Melee at max.
4) SMN was broken as hell and easily top DPS if played correctly
5) Song Rotation. You stacked x3 bards because you could rotate each bard to play Foes, keeping it up 100% of the time making SMN DPS insanely high. And each Bard is rotating their songs, the lost DPS was very, very little.
6) T4 Speed-Clearing. Made it easier to AOE burn the Packs and was impossible to do it without a composition with x2 BRD x1 BLM in i70 DL.
7) T2 Allagan Rot. Before people discovered you could brute force T2, having a lot of Range helped spread/organise Allagan Rot much easier.
8) Bards scale the worst with gear each patch, due to their low WD. So back in 2.0, this wasn't even noticeable when people were pulling 290 DPS on content.

Remember, this was at HIGH-LEVEL, where people were dealing with content in Dark Light, not i90. This was September/October 2.0 Meta. Running x2 Bards to cycle songs along with their very good DPS (They had Blood for Blood, 20% IR) trivialised a lot of Mechanics for World 1st/Server 1st groups. It was after the 2.1 buffs/nerfs to classes, where people dropped stacking and went with x1 Melee, x1 Bard, x2 Mages as an "Optimal" composition.

Pls.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

snip

My lord, you obviously haven't played this game for long.

You're telling me, that putting a cast bar on a class that;

1: requires you to be in melee range
2: requires you to do moves from a specific position to get the most out of it's DPS
3: have to deal with more dmg and mechanics just to how bosses are built and hence losing DPS uptime on a boss as a whole,

is the same thing as putting a cast bar that;

1: Has no positionals,
2: Can avoid most mechanics while STILL DPSing,
3: Has insanely good mobility and can attack from a long range where melee cannot.

Are you for real? Like, do you even think before typing anything? Did you even think through what you said?

There is a reason BRD was laughed as the easiest class in the game, because it was. And now it's slightly difficult to play, you're complaining.

[nbiscuitz]

My lord, you obviously haven't played this game for long.

You're telling me, that putting a cast bar on a class that;

1: requires you to be in melee range
2: requires you to do moves from a specific position to get the most out of it's DPS
3: have to deal with more dmg and mechanics just to how bosses are built and hence losing DPS uptime on a boss as a whole,

is the same thing as putting a cast bar that;

1: Has no positionals,
2: Can avoid most mechanics while STILL DPSing,
3: Has insanely good mobility and can attack from a long range where melee cannot.

Are you for real? Like, do you even think before typing anything? Did you even think through what you said?

There is a reason BRD was laughed as the easiest class in the game, because it was. And now it's slightly difficult to play, you're complaining.

Are you for reaalllllz. I don't know why you think that i don't think, but i kinda think you don't think too. putting cast bar on melee is just a way to make you THINK as a what if scenario, which what I don't want either as I have melee level too. Loving my warrior also.
1. being a melee in melee range?? durrr
2. positional is melee's way to maximize. Our way to maximize is to keep dealing dps while dodging stuff. But can be more difficult for melee i understand.
3. everyone need to deal with mechanics. you lose DPS while move out of melee range (that's the only difference), but fact is that melee still deal the top DPS over bard which is fine by me like I said. Our mobility is to dodge stuff, how is that insane. Melee can move around at melee range too, such insane mobility!!~

Laughed easiest to play? whats wrong with that? are you jealous that we are easier to play? Sounds like you are this type "no, i don't want to be happy like you, I want you to be sad, so we are all sad. That's fair!". I agree putting some more play mechanic is good, but this is not "slightly difficult to play", they have changed the style, like I said in the 1st post (which you didn't read/think), if they want this, they should put this skill at early level, not at bloody 52. Melees have their positional/stacks early, they are designed to play that way. Our 50-60 is getting skills that doesn't extend how we play (except Sidewinder/fester). But to do the same (or slightly more, need parsing data) dps in a different play style, putting the shackle on us that's not worth the effort (which I already said, you probably didn't read/think also).

[Elikzords]

There is a reason BRD was laughed as the easiest class in the game, because it was. And now it's slightly difficult to play, you're complaining.

Ninjas are are far easier in the sense of DPS. Their rotations are highly forgiving and easy and have the potential to be at the top of the charts.

That's the most stupidest comparison I've come across yet. They're melee classes. How the hell would placing cast times on melee classes be equal to placing a small cast bar on a highly mobile, ranged DPS class.

Jesus, people are just pulling random shit from the bag now.

Thing is, I completely understand if people are upset that they don't LIKE WM. I get that, and it's a shame it was tacked on.

What I don't get is the cries for more DPS for a class which has arguably the easiest ability to DPS in the game, with the least forgiving rotation, with the highest mobility.

The issue now is that BRDs are literally "turrets" that do no damage and have no mobility. The mechanics of the class have turned a complete 180. The reason why BRDs are "crying" for dps is now they have lost all of that mobility and yet for some odd reason gained almost nothing in return. I have seen DRK pull 850 DPS while BRDS struggle to do 850-900. It can be argued that BRDs are viewed as support. But regardless of what anyone says, even Yoshida, the "game" itself recognizes BRDs as a DPS class and therefore will face all of the mechanical challenges that any other DPS will face. The problem is that the difference in DPS is so significant that BRDs are now being denied/removed from groups because the class itself is not capable of efficiently completing those challenges or completing them at all in that matter. The game was supposedly designed so that you could take any mix-up of the roles and complete the challenge in a timely matter but now I can hardly even imagine raiding with 4 BRDs/MCHs. At the end of the day, BRDs just want to be able to be within a close proximity of the other classes so they don't be a third wheel but they don't want to be at the top either which is understandable.

[Kayote]

For progression raiding, there will always be one BRD or now, MCN. There always has been. (Maybe a few statics didn't run it, but since the release of ARR, there's always been a BRD in the group for their support.

Not to mention, the developer himself stated they are a support class.

Throw your dummy out of the pram as much as you want to, but that means they are a support class. End of discussion.

Yeah thats funny. Because he also said MCH is a support class in the same sentence, yet the video we all saw introducing the class said DPS.Mind you this is the same guy who said personal housing will be different. Honestly im starting to think YoshiP is no where near the Squarenix prodigy we treat him like ... more of a one hit wonder. Regardless if support is what we are then he needs to add that role or change one of the DPS to support. Because this back and forth is the main reason we're having such problems. Its not only stretching us thin but its obvious this "prodigy" has no clue wtf he wants to do with us.

As for OP, yes I agree. The only exclusive buffs we have are very limited in their use and really only useful with inexperienced groups. They do not balance this games content expecting the other classes, when played well, to run out of TP/MP. FR is dependent on amount of casters"elemental damage." And pound for pound its only slightly more useful than what the other classes bring, yet just as situational. Bard support is a relic from 1.0.

That said there is already a 19 page thread on this:
The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

...better to just continue it there.

[Panasync]

For progression raiding, there will always be one BRD or now, MCN. There always has been. (Maybe a few statics didn't run it, but since the release of ARR, there's always been a BRD in the group for their support.

Not to mention, the developer himself stated they are a support class.

Throw your dummy out of the pram as much as you want to, but that means they are a support class. End of discussion.

There is no support class in the trinity the developers said they're following. That's why all DPS and even the tanks and healers have support abilities. The developers said it was a trinity. End of discussion.