Bard

[jidion]

What do you guys have against bards doing dmg on par with drgs and mnks and blms and smns for that, first you give us a broken ability wanderers minuet which takes away our ability to run and shoot and bring constant dps you even made minuet in this patch a 15s recast time which still doesnt allow us to stance dance like whms and schs can do with cleric stance, and you give us 2 really good abilities Empyreal arrow and sidewinder, one being locked behind minuet, then you nerf one of our best abilities without even lowering the recast time of the ability, 100 less potency with full bites lowing from 350 to 250(sidewinder). What kind of ignorant, idiotic, person do you have in charge of the bards programming. You took a good job, and you broke it beyond all repair. For this, Once i get my drg to 60, im hanging up my bow on my main job because you guys cant fix and raise the dps on a job that i love so dearly. I have spent countless months on my bard, trying to pick up the best gear, gearing it so that I could be somewhat close to the other dps jobs, but you guys have such a low standard of bard, that you cant even take off the cast time from our Weapon skills while under WM off. In final fantasy xi, rangers were sought to be one of the best dps in the game. You took that idea, and made the ranger a bard, and lowered it to sub standard dps that we cant even match the other dps in the game. You gave warrior a dps stance that can do 7-8k fell cleave crits, whm has the ability to crit for 9-10k on cures, but I can barely break 2-3k on any other ability aside from sidewinder. You add all these dps checks to raids, and extreme primal fights, that no matter how good a bard is geared, we still cant make the dps checks. Either lower the dps checks, or raise the damn bards dps.

[Edellis]

tl;dr

very original thread btw

[Panasync]

It's a beaten horse at this point, the fact that they have support songs puts them into a category this game doesn't have in some people's minds. They don't care that you get a debuff for using them, people don't care that all jobs have party utility and support in some sense, it just goes around in a circle.

Quite frankly I'm tired of discussing it. Unless they make a category in party for a secured slot for support and place BRD/MCH in it, we're a DPS. Yes we have support abilities, almost all jobs do, we're the only job punished when we use ours, and rightfully so, but that should be the only drawback. Bard/Machinist in WM w/o using support abilities should be able to compete at mid-range DPS at the very least. I haven't seen a convincing argument otherwise.

Healers have DPS capabilities, we don't call them DPS because of it.

[Vlady]

Plenty of reasons bard and machinist should not be on par with drag/monk. Every raid would bring multiple if not all bards and machinist if they are on par with monks. Remember 2.0? I do. Turn 1-5 we had 3-4 bards. 2.1 it shrank to 1. Bards can bypass a lot of mechanics that close range melee suffer from.

[Sessurea]

I see a post here and ther mentioning near 1k dps solo parses. It's a mystery to me though, no idea how people are reaching these numbers. Gives me hope at least .

[Panasync]

...

Why would anyone stack Bards? There is no fight in this game that is harder for melee than Bards. Every coil turn for the most part Bards had far more responsibility than any melee, on top of having to deal with AoE mechanics we have to do side mechanics as to not pull a melee off of the boss. How is sitting on the boss and walking out of an AoE occasionally harder than dealing with the same dodging and having to be responsible for side mechanics while also having to do maximum DPS?

Also I'm tired of this anecdotal regurgitated 2.0 Bard crap. People were not stacking Bards because their output was better then every other job. Post the math on 2.0 Bard vs 2.0 Melee/Caster potential. I don't want to hear a I saw this, and I heard that. Prove it, don't sit there and regurgitate this crap that you have no proof for. If you're not going to prove it don't bother bringing it up.

What mechanics are you speaking of?

[Alkel]

Bards can bypass a lot of mechanics that close range melee suffer from.

Its well known:

- T10: BRD was able to bypass the charge by running!
- T11: BRD was not concerned by the link! he was able to stay away from the boss and still DPS
- T12: BRD was not handling the fireball, this crappy mechanic was for melee of course
- T13: BRD was not concerned by megaflare! P2 balls were on everyone but BRD! And of course BRD was immune to P3 dive!

There was no "melee only" mechanic in final coil.

Should we talk about T7 pre nerf were BRD was on kitting duty? At least now, since BRD/MCH are gimped turret, we can ask anyone else to do the kite if it happens to be needed.

Yea, BRD was so cheated

[Aura_Shurifon]

White Mage's Cleric Stance have a 10s cd too (a bit less, but still here) and it's far more dangerous to be in the DPS stance while you need to remove it than bard.
Healer => tank dead if we can't switch back to healer stance
Bard => a bit lower DPS... (like 80-90%)

[Merryl]

The basic fact everyone is ignoring... All classes start at zero. There's no logical reason why people playing as Archer should have been decreased, ever.
Totally fine to adjust the endgame stuff... Please leave the base classes alone.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

Quite frankly I'm tired of discussing it. Unless they make a category in party for a secured slot for support and place BRD/MCH in it, we're a DPS. Yes we have support abilities, almost all jobs do, we're the only job punished when we use ours, and rightfully so, but that should be the only drawback. Bard/Machinist in WM w/o using support abilities should be able to compete at mid-range DPS at the very least. I haven't seen a convincing argument otherwise.

For progression raiding, there will always be one BRD or now, MCN. There always has been. (Maybe a few statics didn't run it, but since the release of ARR, there's always been a BRD in the group for their support.

Not to mention, the developer himself stated they are a support class.

Throw your dummy out of the pram as much as you want to, but that means they are a support class. End of discussion.