A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Erepio]

Regardless, MSQ is not "fine as it is" SE is losing new and returning players left and right BECAUSE OF the massive amounts of MSQs required to even see the expansion content. I wouldn't call that 'fine'.

ppl keep saying the game is loosing sub has there been announcement somewhere from where u are getting this from? cuse since the expack hit i havent been able to log in once without having to go in a que first

[Havenae]

ppl keep saying the game is loosing sub has there been announcement somewhere from where u are getting this from? cuse since the expack hit i havent been able to log in once without having to go in a que first

I'm getting it from personal experience.

New and returning playing complaining about the MSQs in chat, in vent, saying they didn't see playing much longer if this keeps up. and so forth . Not to mention quite a few friends I tried to bring to the game that have since stopped playing after they reached 50 msqs and became disheartened that the quests just kept coming. Asked me how many they had to do I said, "I dunno somewhere around 60? 70?" That didn't go over well. Hell even my wife quit because she just felt overwhelmed with it. Not to mention that if you happen to peruse the forums, even in this thread there are many similar stories to this.

Now I'm not saying those randoms who were complaining about it definitely quit. But if you're a brand new player and you're already disgruntled on the game, chances are you aren't going to stick it out. But I'm fairly certain friends I tried to draw in won't be back, I know at least five of them for sure. Not because they're lazy or because they seek "Instant gratification" but because they simply dont have the time to grind out meaningless quests to see new content let alone play classes they were interested in.

And maybe that doesn't sound like a lot.. Maybe those five people at $15 a month doesn't add up to much. But if they had a problem, and there's multiple posts on these forums outlining the problem. There's many people on here saying the exact same things.. That does add up. Also, like I said.. for every customer than complains, you can be damn sure there are many more who don't make a peep but feel the exact same way.

[Zabuza]

A lot of people have misinterpreted my earlier quote, so let me clear up a few things.

1. I was making the reply that instant gratification gamers ruin MMOs, because I was replying to someone who specifically said they want to bring those types of people to this MMO.

2. I actually agree with condensing the non-story portions of the MSQ if you go back and look at my posts, I do not agree with making the entire thing optional.

3. I've watched WoW ruin its own game over a decade by continually becoming a watered down casual mess. There is a balance point between accessible and hardcore gameplay. Wrath of the Lich King achieved this balance for WoW. After that, their game began driving off players in the millions, because their game became increasingly casual. WoW has now made most of their content instant gratification and as such, most of their players hate their current expansion and feel betrayed.

4. Another reason people starting leaving WoW is because the lore became weak in comparison. If you ask most WoW players, Wrath of the Lich King was their strongest lore expansion. To a lot of players, the lore was important.

5. I have watched WoW destroy the MMO genre as we know it. People forget that it is not only an MMO but an MMORPG. Even one of the games I used to love, FFXI, was butchered for a lot of its players when Abyssea came along, casualizing a completely non-casual game. Yeah, it still has its loyal subs, but where can those hardcore players go now? Those who loved the old FFXI literally have nowhere to go because of WoW's influence. I've played so many MMOs who all have the same model because people flock to polished WoW clones. They claim to want something different but any time a company tries they complain or leave en masse. WoW stagnated progress and innovation in this genre.

6. I don't want this game to begin a path of caving in to whiners and become overcasualized over the years as WoW has done. WoW no longer even cares about their own lore, so you see, you asking FFXIV to make all of their lore optional would eventually ruin it for people who cherish the lore, whether you realize it or not, and begin a downward spiral towards instant gratification. No thank you.

People like the OP may think me arrogant or whatever, but I've put years of straight gameplay into MMOs. I've been at the top of the PvP and PvE in different ones. I've read countless posts, articles, and blogs. Hell, I've even written a 300 page book about MMOs. I know that if they made the entire MSQ optional it would keep more new players. However, right now, the new players who actually enjoy the game will enjoy the journey and the story. The ones who have no patience will leave, or not even try it when they're told of the requirements, and that's ok. Catering for instant gratification, even if it gives you more subs, makes the content of your game meaningless and makes your game trivial. MMORPGs did not start out as such a genre, and should not have games made on such a model. Genres for these type of gamers already exist. MMORPGs were created for a sense of progress, even seeing your character level up is an easy visible marker for progress and community. Making an MMO instant gratification is literally the antithesis of what an MMO is about.

[Tuathaa]

snip

What WoW did was stop listening to its player base and started implementing thing that "they" thought were good ideas even thought the player base was screaming no they still did it.
Which is also why the majority of the development teams from bc and wrath no longer work for blizzard any more and are working for Riot games.

[Zabuza]

What WoW did was stop listening to its player base and started implementing thing that "they" thought were good ideas even thought the player base was screaming no they still did it.
Which is also why the majority of the development teams from bc and wrath no longer work for blizzard any more and are working for Riot games.

Listening too much to the people always turns out bad for MMO developers, because satisfying the complainers is nearly impossible. Just look at the people complaining about the way the loot system is now on Alexander. This is after people complained about the way Coil loot worked in the past. You also have people complaining story mode Alexander is too easy, whereas before people would complain about how hard Coil was. Complainers are impossible to satisfy because:

1. You may satisfy one group of complainers, only to cause unrest to a group of people who wanted it done the exact opposite way.
2. A lot of people who play the MMO genre don't even know what they want out of an MMO. For years people whined "why isn't there any innovation anymore in MMOs? Why are they all WoW clones?" Then, when innovative MMOs came out people ran from them, as they didn't like how different it was from WoW. The reason this game is as successful as it is, is because a lot of their basic design decisions copied WoW, except they made some of the features better and more polished. This is exactly what WoW did when it started, copying off of other MMOs yet making them more polished. So if the devs made the story completely optional, you'd have people complaining they don't care about the lore, and there is a lack of content to do as they blew through it. People are ALREADY doing that.

People complaining about the Alexander loot system:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-systems-sucks
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er-loot-system

Post complaining about story mode Alexander being too easy:
(possible spoilers)http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sible-spoilers

A thread clamoring for a story mode of Coil before Alexander came out, protesting players could not enjoy Coil's story because of the difficulty:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-mode-isn-t-it

I guarantee you at this point if they made the entirety of MSQ optional you would see just as much activity on the forums, if not more, of people complaining about such a decision and feeling disheartened by it.

[Xairos]

Listening too much to the people always turns out bad for MMO developers, because satisfying the complainers is nearly impossible. Just look at the people complaining about the way the loot system is now on Alexander. This is after people complained about the way Coil loot worked in the past. You also have people complaining story mode Alexander is too easy, whereas before people would complain about how hard Coil was. Complainers are impossible to satisfy because ... Snip

THIS nails it. This is exactly what's happening. We all knew story mode would be easier, now people are saying its too easy. What message does that send SE? Well if they listen intently, they are being told to make something harder. And have rewarding loot. And be something that people without a static and people with a static can enjoy.

I believe they are trying their best, but in a world where "wait for it" is forbidden, coupled by the potential of gripe-fest 2015 that is the forums, they have a long road ahead. To a degree they have to listen to us and ignore us. Blizzard took (takes) the other route and tells their players what they think fun is. I would guess the only way to combat this is to tell SE what you do like about the game.

[Musashidon]

snip

ff11 players have nowhere to go because hardcore games don't make money.

it's that simple why cater to 100k when you can cater to 1million?

[ThanMazus]

I know that if they made the entire MSQ optional it would keep more new players.

"A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)"

So you agree with the thread title's premise?

[Zabuza]

"A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)"

So you agree with the thread title's premise?

Insofar in that it could discourage some new players who have no patience, yes, I agree. Where we differ is I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing for the game. I'd rather they keep the loyal fanbase who stuck with them entertained than pandering to some instant gratification kiddies. As I said earlier, not all the new players will leave. Quite a few who enjoy story, who enjoy the game, will stay. I already stated several times I have no problem getting rid of the useless fetch quests in the MSQ. Where I have the problem is where quite a few people are demanding the entire MSQ be optional.