Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

[Lillia]

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Honestly, I'm not against it actually showing a bigger increase when we're in wanderer's or it not even being a song. I'm against these posters who are talking like they want to do more DPS to reach up to other DPS'ers period when they have so many benefits to the job as it is.

Acting like this is something permanent like if we can't take wanderer's off at all and forever losing movement then also giving off the expression of us being taken to content mainly because we can move is ridiculous.

It's convenient that we can move and DPS for raids or big content yes, but that's not the main reason we're looked for since other jobs as I said can move and do the same thing while having a job with bigger DPS fill in for their loss.

[Temjiu]

Honestly, I'm not against it actually showing a bigger increase when we're in wanderer's or it not even being a song. I'm against these posters who are talking like they want to do more DPS to reach up to other DPS'ers period when they have so many benefits to the job as it is.

Acting like this is something permanent like if we can't take wanderer's off at all and forever losing movement then also giving off the expression of us being taken to content mainly because we can move is ridiculous.

It's convenient that we can move and DPS for raids or big content yes, but that's not the main reason we're looked for since other jobs as I said can move and do the same thing while having a job with bigger DPS fill in for their loss.

I think that's the catch. This wasn't a huge issue in 2.x because our damage was good, but not as high as other DPS. but it was high enough to validate us coming, in addition to our buffs. as of now, with other classes getting buff abilities, and tanks doing as much damage as we are now...it really calls into question the BRD role, which is probably why people are arguing the point. I haven't been around ffxiv long enough to know if these same arguments were around back before BRD's did decent damage, but I wouldn't be surprised. balance is always a tough issue when a class is perceived as having support functionality outside their primary role (which in this case is DPS). the 2.x solution seemed to work, perhaps if they got back to that people would be a bit more happy.

Again, goes back to damage. Honestly, if i can pump out the damage of other DPS classes with these changes, IM OK with that. If they eliminate the "casting" requirements, but lower our dps to a "Viable but slightly under the other DPS" classes im fine with that too. but both? not justifiable given the current status of other classes. if we have to play a BLM to get DPS, then i want the DPS of a BLM. or Scholar. anything lower is unacceptable, as we aren't being a BRD at that point. were BLM with the option of turning off our DPS to give people songs (that are rarely needed nowadays).

On the note of the song: IM Ok if it feels like it fits into the continuum. Even though I dont' play BLM (im one of those guys that played BRD because i like the mobility and no cast times), when I DO play my lvl 25 BLM, it feels smooth...the class was designed around cast timers, and rotations involve that. having this 3 sec song as part of a regular rotation really feels clunky. at the least, i'd like to get that removed.

[Lewtskie]

You guys do make my head hurt. The only people so far this entire time who have said "lol, bards should do same dps as the rest" have been people like Musa and why they keep thinking we say that is beyond reasoning. People like me and Intel understand why we do less damage overall and are okay with that. What we aren't okay with is how far below the par we've dropped. Compared to our par with other dps before HW and now, the gap is getting bigger. Minuet is suppose to make up for that but it's so clunky and lacks synergy with who we are that it calls into question its overall usefulness. And even outside of usefulness, people are peeved because it is going against one of the aesthetics advertised as a Bard early on.

Which brings another thing. No one has said that the only reason we are brought to anything is because Legolas. My entire time here has been to rebut claims that the only thing important about a Bard is their songs. A sensible person is not going to only see one third of what makes a Bard. You need to see ALL that we offer:

-We provide a mechanic of supplementation to other roles, either increasing damage or refreshing resources.
-We deal moderate levels of damage with efficient spikes throughout a fight.
-We can maneuver seamlessly through a battlefield without having to sacrifice our core role's mechanic.

This is everything that makes a Bard. And the value of one over another is a constantly shifting system. Sometimes people need our support, other times we need our mobility, and every time when neither of those apply WE ESPECIALLY NEED OUR DAMAGE.

I don't hate Wanderer's, I see the potential. I've been using it plenty and am getting a better hang of it, but as it is right now it's warped and needs some serious fine tuning. The best thing right now would remove that damn cast time. Giving us that the synergy with it would increase exponentially. Not doing anything for a couple minutes we pop Wanderer's and go to town, taking it back off to work a mechanic while still providing damage, then going right back into it when the work is done. That would be great.

But another issue that arises is when we need to be in Wanderer's for that damage but the fight makes it increasingly hard to pull off our rotations. And it's understandable that casters have had to deal with this shit since day one, for every enhanced fireball a BLM can throw we would need two or three Straight shots or two Empyreal Arrows. Hell, once a SMN has all their dots on and their pet on the target that's 3/4th their damage cycle so having to interrupt a Ruin isn't heartbreaking. So yeah, if we are gonna be sacrificing one aspect for another, we need it to count.

Of course, they could also make it so they are blended together well enough, little more damage with little less mobility. I've said in the past what they could do is not make it a cast entirely, but make it so it's a charge that slows us down. About the same speed we move when we are back stepping while locked on, but as this while charging a weaponskill.

So it's best were we to get one or the other. Just not what we have right now.

Another issue atm is we could also use some tuning to the support aspect. As it is right now, everyone is getting some support mechanic to their kits that doesn't hurt them. Only exception I think is NIN. Skills that mark debuffs or skills that give the entire party a damage or crit buff. Something. We need something else to go beyond that. MP/TP regen onyl goes so far and this new pre-esuna nonsense was just a slap in the face.

So honestly, I feel right now every one of our aspects is in dangerous territory.

[Musashidon]

songs. A sensible person is not going to only see one third of what makes a Bard. You need to see ALL that we offer:

-We provide a mechanic of supplementation to other roles, either increasing damage or refreshing resources.
-We deal moderate levels of damage with efficient spikes throughout a fight.
-We can maneuver seamlessly through a battlefield without having to sacrifice our core role's mechanic.

1 songs
2 you deal damage
3 nothing?

seriously you have 1 thing going for you in that list. songs.

everyone deals damage even healers.

don't sacrifice core mechanics of the job in battle? you mean you can run and shoot at the same time? lol great quality too bad nobody picks you for that.


the only thing you keep repeating is i don't do enough, it says i am dps and i shouldn't lose mobility that i like so much!!!


we gained 10 lvls and 55 ilvls in weapons and 45 ilvls in gear guess what the gap is going to get bigger the damage gap in weapon damage also got bigger by 1 damage.

135 is 6 damage difference from other dps and 190 is a 7 damage difference.

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there are 4 dps and 2 tanks, that means there is at least 2 people in your raid that will run out of tp no if's and's or but's

if you have at least 1 melee that's 3 without a bard all 3 lose 100% of their dpsing capabilities about what 4 minutes in?

bards keep the whole raid running, no other job comes even close to what a bards songs can do. goad? sure now you only lose 2 jobs (if you use 3 melees as an example) but you still lose lots of dps because of the lack of songs and this isn't including mages ballad for when your heals will run out of mp because they will and they you lose all survivablity.