Hopefully Alexander/Savage will be 24 mans.

[Ashkendor]

They are already developing the 8 man. However I am asking the harder version to be 24-man. =)

You do realize that the hard mode/savage Alexander is probably all but finished at this point right? They're implementing it a couple of weeks after the normal mode/story Alexander goes in. Making it 24 man at this point... yeah no. Not gonna happen. They'd basically have to scrap everything except the graphics work.

24 man raids in general... no thanks. It would be a logistical nightmare. The Year of the Pug would dawn in Eorzea because good luck to the average player putting together a 24 man static (maybe up to 30 if you want to have some alternates to fill in for no-shows). Contrary to what you said earlier, a 24 man raiding static wouldn't make a lot of us any more likely to take someone with no experience, at least not if the rest of the party has already progressed. It wouldn't make us less likely to kick someone that was repeatedly screwing up either, because that person is holding everyone else back. It would just make it more of a pain in the ass to 1) recruit skilled players and 2) replace players that aren't as skilled as they initially claimed. I honestly think it would make the endgame community even more insular than it already is, and pugs would still be out in the cold looking for a way in.

It would also make it more of a pain in the ass to learn outside of static because 24 man learning party. Even having 8 random players that are all new to a fight can make it feel like you're herding cats. 24 would be even less productive. This game is aimed at a more casual playerbase, and 24 man statics are most definitely not casual.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

You do realize that the hard mode/savage Alexander is probably all but finished at this point right? They're implementing it a couple of weeks after the normal mode/story Alexander goes in. Making it 24 man at this point... yeah no. Not gonna happen. They'd basically have to scrap everything except the graphics work.

24 man raids in general... no thanks. It would be a logistical nightmare. The Year of the Pug would dawn in Eorzea because good luck to the average player putting together a 24 man static (maybe up to 30 if you want to have some alternates to fill in for no-shows). Contrary to what you said earlier, a 24 man raiding static wouldn't make a lot of us any more likely to take someone with no experience, at least not if the rest of the party has already progressed. It wouldn't make us less likely to kick someone that was repeatedly screwing up either, because that person is holding everyone else back. It would just make it more of a pain in the ass to 1) recruit skilled players and 2) replace players that aren't as skilled as they initially claimed. I honestly think it would make the endgame community even more insular than it already is, and pugs would still be out in the cold looking for a way in.

It would also make it more of a pain in the ass to learn outside of static because 24 man learning party. Even having 8 random players that are all new to a fight can make it feel like you're herding cats. 24 would be even less productive. This game is aimed at a more casual playerbase, and 24 man statics are most definitely not casual.

TO be fair, you can make content that is very hard and challenging but still not content that you must learn and study before you can do it. If you need to study a fight at this point in the game then that fight is IMO, badly designed. Luckily, most fights so far have been nice and have had mechanics that you don't need to watch a video for. We need more fights with more random mechanics as well so they are not all the same.

The second you find a guide to a fight that isn't vague then its already failed.

One of the fights I remember was in Sentinel's Fate where there was a checkerboard in the final boss room.

Randomly, the floor would fall under you. Of course it would give you a warning but there were so many different patterns that you couldn't keep up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-iASkwCKYA for example. Except it was random, and each also gave a random buff or debuff as well. You had to move the named around the room and risk your raid not falling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o26P6LaeWpQ

I don't think it is a nightmare. I think your actually more afraid of it more then anything else, however that is personal opinion. I know you don't agree with me, however its been proven to be implemented so I doubt its this "Nightmare" as you call it, since I have experienced it myself.

I guess we were all super men, able to get together some people for a common goal! =3

[Ashkendor]

TO be fair, you can make content that is very hard and challenging but still not content that you must learn and study before you can do it. If you need to study a fight at this point in the game then that fight is IMO, badly designed. Luckily, most fights so far have been nice and have had mechanics that you don't need to watch a video for. We need more fights with more random mechanics as well so they are not all the same.

See, I think fights with too many random mechanics are an awful idea because it's always absolutely maddening when RNGesus basically screws you out of a clear with a really unfortunate series of Bad Stuff™.

I don't think it is a nightmare. I think your actually more afraid of it more then anything else, however that is personal opinion. I know you don't agree with me, however its been proven to be implemented so I doubt its this "Nightmare" as you call it, since I have experienced it myself.

My opinion is that compared to what we have now, it'd be a nightmare. Getting 24 people in one place in one time is several orders of magnitude harder than getting 8 people in one place at one time. I don't see how anyone can try to argue otherwise. My static already runs into issues with scheduling. Note that I never said it would be impossible, just that it would be difficult; you telling me that I'm afraid of it honestly kind of makes me laugh. You haven't even touched endgame in this game, and yet you feel like you're in a position to pass judgement on it. All of your excuses about it are kind of meaningless - if you really wanted to experience it, you would've buckled down and done it. I first got into endgame long after T5 was a thing (Echo went into SCoB around the time I was in T8, so yes we had some catching up to do). I managed to get myself into a static and get myself caught up with T13.

As far as 24 man raids go, I'm not willing to go down the road of pugging half of my raid on any given static night. I'd sooner play with people that I know have the skills to get through the content and that I know I can get along with well enough to raid with them. I think I deserve to raid with people that I mesh well with on a personal and a technical level. CT/ST/WoD are completely different animals - they're easy content that's meant to be clearable in all but the worst of random parties. Actual endgame content requires you to fine-tune that 8 man machine.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

See, I think fights with too many random mechanics are an awful idea because it's always absolutely maddening when RNGesus basically screws you out of a clear with a really unfortunate series of Bad Stuff™.



Compared to what we have now, it'd be a nightmare. Getting 24 people in one place in one time is several orders of magnitude harder than getting 8 people in one place at one time. I don't see how anyone can try to argue otherwise. My static already runs into issues with scheduling. Note that I never said it would be impossible, just that it would be difficult; you telling me that I'm afraid of it honestly kind of makes me laugh.

I'm not willing to go down the road of pugging half of my raid on any given static night. I'd sooner play with people that I know have the skills to get through the content and that I know I can get along with well enough to raid with them. I think I deserve to raid with people that are easy to get along with as well as being as skilled.

Then bring in a new person and take a risk. Randomness isn't subject to RNG more then it is Adaptation.

Trial by fire. You take what you can get, and maybe you will find someone amazing.

Call me crazy, but I have been pugging for years and some of the best players I have found are players nobody gives a chance to.

[Ashkendor]

It seems that from the tweet the developers are going to make the 8 mans the more casual version: Like Crystal Tower. The 24 man's will be the new coils. =D

Can't wait to see whats going to happen!

Proof please.

Then bring in a new person and take a risk. Randomness isn't subject to RNG more then it is Adaptation.

Trial by fire. You take what you can get, and maybe you will find someone amazing.

Call me crazy, but I have been pugging for years and some of the best players I have found are players nobody gives a chance to.

Pugs can be good, sure. But pugs can also be a complete waste of time. If we're looking to fill a party ASAP for progression content, Party Finder is honestly our absolute last resort. We go to linkshells, FC's, and friend lists first before we ever go near PF. Good pugs that we meet in other content often end up in our static linkshell to act as subs. Bad pugs... well, at best they get replaced. At worst, they get blacklisted.

I don't have a 'take what you can get' mentality. My static deserves more than that.

[Kaedan]

24 man raids in general... no thanks. It would be a logistical nightmare. The Year of the Pug would dawn in Eorzea because good luck to the average player putting together a 24 man static (maybe up to 30 if you want to have some alternates to fill in for no-shows). Contrary to what you said earlier, a 24 man raiding static wouldn't make a lot of us any more likely to take someone with no experience, at least not if the rest of the party has already progressed. It wouldn't make us less likely to kick someone that was repeatedly screwing up either, because that person is holding everyone else back. It would just make it more of a pain in the ass to 1) recruit skilled players and 2) replace players that aren't as skilled as they initially claimed. I honestly think it would make the endgame community even more insular than it already is, and pugs would still be out in the cold looking for a way in.

It would also make it more of a pain in the ass to learn outside of static because 24 man learning party. Even having 8 random players that are all new to a fight can make it feel like you're herding cats. 24 would be even less productive. This game is aimed at a more casual playerbase, and 24 man statics are most definitely not casual.

Crystal tower worked just fine in ARR, granting it wasn't "hard".

Rift has difficult 24 man raids and they do just fine. That's what guilds (see FC) are for.