SMN poorly implemented

[BlaiseArath]

And yes I did play FFXI, and god I don't want to return to the SMN of this game, I don't want to be a sub-WHM, thanks

You clearly haven't played since like, 2006 :\.

But when it comes to XIV, SMN has a unique place, and I agree it plays more like a BLM than a SMN point for point if we take into account past Summoners. One could say its becaus this is an MMO, I can accept that as an excuse simply because SE didn't want to properly balance a pet job that has a split of damage being roughly 80/20 Pet/Master. Because with a disposable DD one might not even look at other DDs. But pets would be more dangerous in most fights because they don't move and can easily be killed by mechanics.

In the same light, it would basically be a full time DD with equivalent power that can keep fighting while the master does mechanics... It would be a balancing act, and in XI SMN was early on a gimper WHM, and in later game a semi-decent DPS, and in late late life it became incredibly powerful. But its been all over the place. Balancing that in XIV wouldn't be hard as its very simplified in terms of damage formulas, unlike XI. It could be done, but it wont, so its best to move on.

So give me a summon that could be possible in the lore, without making the SMN too OP.

We discussed it many, MANY times that if we bring another summon to the SMN, it would be too OP or too weak.
Maybe you just play the game just to do some dungeons here and there, but in a raid situation, the SMN is FINE.

Even if we had another summon, we would always use the best one, which won't solve the problem.
Can you at least undertand a simple thing like that ?

I could probably design Ramuh-Egi in like 3 seconds :|

Main Attack - Potency 110 like others
AoE Attack - Potency 90
Utility Attack - Potency 90, Paralysis-
Utility Buff - Shock Spikes. same as blaze.

there, he's as "unique" as the others, instead of a stun, he gets a paralyze!

[zcrash970]

I could probably design Ramuh-Egi in like 3 seconds :|

Main Attack - Potency 110 like others
AoE Attack - Potency 90
Utility Attack - Potency 90, Paralysis-
Utility Buff - Shock Spikes. same as blaze.

there, he's as "unique" as the others, instead of a stun, he gets a paralyze!

No one would use that since paralysis is useless since everything resist most status alignments. The three egis are fine and we don't need a new one.
I could just use Ifrit which has a stronger aoe and blaze spikes.

[AiiroOkami]

You clearly haven't played since like, 2006 :\.
I could probably design Ramuh-Egi in like 3 seconds :|

Main Attack - Potency 110 like others
AoE Attack - Potency 90
Utility Attack - Potency 90, Paralysis-
Utility Buff - Shock Spikes. same as blaze.

there, he's as "unique" as the others, instead of a stun, he gets a paralyze!

I won't use that Ramuh-Egi then, why would I play it ?
Can it replace Garuda AOEs and Contagion or Ifrit DPS on single target and his radiant shield ? The answer is no.
You clearly just want to see new LOOKING summons, but don't really care about the utility of the summon.

[BlaiseArath]

I won't use that Ramuh-Egi then, why would I play it ?
Can it replace Garuda AOEs and Contagion or Ifrit DPS on single target and his radiant shield ? The answer is no.
You clearly just want to see new LOOKING summons, but don't really care about the utility of the summon.

No one would use that since paralysis is useless since everything resist most status alignments. The three egis are fine and we don't need a new one.
I could just use Ifrit which has a stronger aoe and blaze spikes.

I didnt think I could be any clearly with my sarcasm, even put "Unique" in quotation marks, so yah, Woosh friends... I was trying to point out even if we got new summons they would be utterly worthless anyway because balance, and that 2/3rds of our summons abilities are pretty carbon-copy of eachother already, so why would people want a new pet when it will be the exact same pet with different animations?

Also, Aiiro, a tad defensive much...? I don't want "new" summons, in fact, I've on many an occasion advocated I'd rather just use Carbuncle than another sh*t tier looking stick figure that they would give us.

We already have the basics covered. a Ranged, a Melee, and a Tank. Outside of a healing pet(which is dumb and no) theres not much room to wiggle. Which is I'm sure why they decided to introduce pet "glamours" instead.

[gorezilla1]

I was lorecrafting with an fc mate, and we were talking about how best to implement new egis. If we are indeed to get new ones, we should only have 3 standard egis (Titan, garuda, and ifrit). Then the additional ones would work like FFXII espers, but on a large cooldown:
So, let's say you are primarily using garuda, she'll stay the entire fight unless killed, dismissed, or swapped for ifrit or titan and vice versa. However, you'd be able to summon a Ramuh egi as well which would have about a 5 minute cooldown and last a minute. During that minute, he'll be on sic and just go ham and then at the end, he'll use a finisher and leave. Once he's gone, he'll have 4 minutes till his next resummoning, but you'll be able to summon a shiva egi next, who probably has a 6 min cooldown. Something like that. That way, you get to use all the new one consistently.
The new ones could also temporarily replace the initial 3 you summon and then you get to give them orders. My point is that this would be a great way to make sure that people don't simply find one egi, and ignore the rest.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I was lorecrafting with an fc mate, and we were talking about how best to implement new egis. If we are indeed to get new ones, we should only have 3 standard egis (Titan, garuda, and ifrit). Then the additional ones would work like FFXII espers, but on a large cooldown:
So, let's say you are primarily using garuda, she'll stay the entire fight unless killed, dismissed, or swapped for ifrit or titan and vice versa. However, you'd be able to summon a Ramuh egi as well which would have about a 5 minute cooldown and last a minute. During that minute, he'll be on sic and just go ham and then at the end, he'll use a finisher and leave. Once he's gone, he'll have 4 minutes till his next resummoning, but you'll be able to summon a shiva egi next, who probably has a 6 min cooldown. Something like that. That way, you get to use all the new one consistently.
The new ones could also temporarily replace the initial 3 you summon and then you get to give them orders. My point is that this would be a great way to make sure that people don't simply find one egi, and ignore the rest.

An interesting concept, I like the idea of multiple summons in battle. Though going off that idea I would suggest this second summoning concept be allowed for any and all Egi. It could be SMN's lvl 70 skills, where instead of building Aethertrail stacks to use DT, we use them to call forth a second Egi allowing the SMN to have two Egi in play at once. Except one would be fully AI controlled as you suggested and only last for a small amount of time and use their ultimate before dissipating.

SMN's lvl 80 skills could then allow SMN to build a second stack of Aethertrails to call forth a third Egi (whilst the second Egi is still up) allowing the SMN to have a full triad in play. Once the triad is complete it allows SMN to absorb all three Egi at once to cast a massive raid wide AoE attack. The visual for this attack could be the three Egi forming a triangle around the SMN. The SMN starts to rise up in the air with the Egi rotating around them, transforming to a massive ball of Aether above the SMN. The SMN then throws this Aether ball to the ground, creating a massive AoE explosion. All three Egi would then be instantly dismissed upon casting this.

[Azuta]

@gore @Solo

See its these ideas I want to see in summoner. These advance demonstrations of summoning prowess and talents are essential, in separating what makes a black mage a black mage and what makes a summoner a summoner.

[gorezilla1]

@gore @Solo

See its these ideas I want to see in summoner. These advance demonstrations of summoning prowess and talents are essential, in separating what makes a black mage a black mage and what makes a summoner a summoner.

Lol. I admit it would be cool. But to Solo, stuff can't happen outside of anime. If it happened in-game, 90% of the population would probably go smn. lol.

[silentwindfr]

@gore @Solo

See its these ideas I want to see in summoner. These advance demonstrations of summoning prowess and talents are essential, in separating what makes a black mage a black mage and what makes a summoner a summoner.

i'm curious to know what is the difference?
in the solo game, them pet was not different that ultra advanced magic attack on area. the only difference was... well to make the party disappear and deal tons of damage... but it was a direct damage caster. FF11 did the same, people was calling the summoning and use one skill and send it back.

if you look at it... the function of the summoner is identical to the black mage, the difference is.... well appearance of the skill. you don't believe me?

ifrit = big fire spell
shiva = big ice spell
leviathan = big water spell...

we can continue like this for hours. summoner is simply an advanced jobs for black mage.... them function and skill are virtually doing the same. the difference is often black mage get other spell like bio, sleep,.... we can argue than FF12 have done it differently and it's true, but if you remember when a summon was called, the other party member was replaced by it.

we are in a mmorpg, we can't have a jobs that will work like in solo game... we can't have a jobs that can do everything too (for you red mage) we are into a game that need to be balanced around playing with other.

most of the summoner complain are an ego trouble, nothing much. then want impressive summon for show they are the boss.... sadly play pet class or summoner of badassitude don't work well in mmorpg. i did play pet jobs for loooong, very long! your pet are your strongest point, but at the same time, they are your biggest weakness!

Yoshida and it team have work really hard for bring a summoner that can fit into mmorpg and be balanced, even with heavensward they have show you that they can offer you new possibility... and i still people complaining.... seriously... time to grow up.