Bards viability now?

[JayCommon]

As far as the loss of mobility is concerned, that's not a big issue IMO (as long as the dmg is balanced, which it currently isn't), except that you are forcing players to change their fundamental play style when they hit the level at which they get WM. No other job has such a dramatic shift.

That's exactly what I told my friends. I was BRD Main all of 2.0. I switched to DRK for expansion but had to at least level my bard...

With knowing how DRK progresses, and in talking to my friends as how their characters progress...BRD is the only job who got such a fundamental change to their job role that it doesn't even feel like the same job anymore. This is basically a paraphrase of what I told my raid:

"When a job is "expanded" in an "expansion", it should take the skills you already have and know well, and bolster them. When leveling DRK from 30-50, you get a large portion of the CD's and tank-y type moves that are necessary to a tank job. Level 50-60, favored bolstering your DPS abilities by giving you some oGCD's and a very hig potency move. This isn't a shift, it's taking the skills you already have and adding to them as compliments to a larger, but more complete skillset.

When I read the changes to Barrage and our AoE moves I thought, "Why?..." Then when you get to level 52 and get WM, you start to see why. When you get to 56 and get Iron Jaws, you know why.

Wanderer's Minuet is the only skill/song/anything in the game that I can currently think of that completely changes the fundamentals of the job. And instead of it being a skill that you can decide when and when not to use, SE integrated being in this stance to almost everything you get post-50. So instead of expanding upon an existing Bard's skillset, they completely revamped the job, including old skills, to work under the influence of one single new ability."

In essence, you could have changed the name of the Job itself and noone would complain because what we have in the game right now isn't a Bard. It's an extremely weak caster if we are intended to play it with SE's re-design in mind. It left a very foul taste in my mouth, and even though DRK has some pretty glaring balance issues of its own at the moment, at least I have fun when I play DRK. Playing BRD currently in 3.0 is excruciating if you stay in WM.

[Lillia]

Um, yes they did actually. Here is the relevant part:


Waiting for a few weeks of Alexander experience is also too late. SE should realize this from their experience with FFXI. There, they introduced a new job "puppet master" that was a disaster. They made lots of changes later on to improve the job but it was way too late - almost everyone had abandoned the job and those who played it got no respect at all, no party invites, etc. It's clear that BRD and MCH have serious problems and waiting will only ingrain the issue.

Where did you get that from? It's not in the link I posted so there's another source right? Bluegarter site maybe? o-O

snip

DRK is also a new job though so it'd be hard to change a playstyle that no one really got accustom to, I see where you're going with it though.

[Garan]

Yes there is...

We aren't going to be singing 100% of the time ever. To hit like a Monk and have free mobility is absolutely absurd on every level. No one would play anything else. Again, this happened. This was a reality. It would be again if our WD was returned.

It obviously wouldn't help everyone be better though...not when 2yrs later there are still people out there that think BRD's songs don't affect themselves? SMH

To clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't have some damage penalty for our mobility. I'm saying the reasoning that we "support" the party and should have lower base DPS is absurd. Our penalty for lower DPS when supporting is already built into those support skills. However, if WM stays the same, then there's no reason we shouldn't be able to pull comparable numbers as every other DPS when we no longer have any mobility advantage.

[Waeksyn]

Here is where I got the quote.

Post 355 Community Rep

And in its entirety.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
Hello, everyone,
FFXIV producer/director Yoshida here.
Thank you for all the feedback you've been posting regarding bard.

I'd like to take a moment to discuss how the development team recognizes the current situation and our plans for adjustment.

• The Wanderer's Minuet
  In regards to the Wanderer's Minuet, the ability that you learn from the level 52 job quest, we are aware of the following points of feedback:
  1. Until reaching level 60, using Wanderer's Minuet will result in less damage being dealt in comparison to when you are not using it.
  2. It's difficult to feel the benefits of Wanderer's Minuet versus the risk of not being able to move while attacking, which was a perk of playing as a bard.
  3. It's difficult to use Wanderer's Minuet because the casting time required for activating it is too long.
  As a result of the initial bad impression given by the first problem, and the length of time required to cast it, I think that it's still difficult to feel the benefits of this ability even when you hit level 60.
  
  The team is currently working on fixes to resolve these problems.
  
  In addition to making adjustments so that the effect of this ability is fitting right after you learn it, we will be making it easier to switch into and out of Wanderer's Minuet and eliminating the current aspects that make it difficult to use. At the same time we will be paying close attention to the balance of each skill so the damage output at level 60 does not largely increase.

• The Warden's Paean
  We've been receiving feedback that the utility and value of using the Warden's Paean seems low, and the development team is aware of this. We are currently looking into adjustments.

• Regarding the bug wherein actions cannot be used temporarily
  I apologize for the inconveniences caused by this bug. We addressed this in today's hotfix. I apologize for the time it took to properly address.

There has only been a small amount of time since you all have reached level 60 (this goes for all jobs; not just bard), and the new raid will be opening shortly, so I'm sure you will continue to explore your jobs with trial and error.

The development team is constantly keeping a watch on job balance, and we will be reading over all of the feedback we receive after the raid has opened and making adjustments as necessary.

That, my friends, is SE's official obituary. May bard rest in peace.

[Dante_V]

As a raid leader who has beaten plenty of content pre nerf and formed multiple statics and raid teams I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that having a ranged dps with tp/mp regen utilities is an absolute necessity when forming my teams.

Bard/MCH are never going to pull melee dps numbers and never has since Ive been raiding. But again I dont expect them to either. Their utility is why I bring them with my team. If they removed this utility in favor of equal damage to melee then they would be truly dead. From all the runs Ive done post HW the damage ratio of melee to bard difference hasnt really changed at all.

Some people saying that bringing utility like this isnt a good reason to have lower overall damage but whatever you may think it IS the reason and its for balancing between classes.

To the OP I would say if you want to make a bard by all means do it. If anything all of these people quitting the class will increase the demand for the bard, not lower it.

[MythToken]

Why are people thinking that a SUPPORT class is supposed to be doing damage on par with a DPS class.


BRD/MCH are SUPPORT classes.

[Zyrusticae]

BRD/MCH are SUPPORT classes.

Where's the 'SUPPORT' role in the DF then?

[Wavaryen]

Why are people thinking that a SUPPORT class is supposed to be doing damage on par with a DPS class.


BRD/MCH are SUPPORT classes.

They are a dps class. Not support dps. Not support. DPS Even the devs have said so.

Each class brings support, sure bards bring a amazing tool, but that tool comes at a cost of dps. The point is. They are as much as support class as a ninja or dragoon.

[AkashiXI]

Bards aren't affected by their own songs. You know that, right? The reason that Bard asked for Ballad was to keep their song going for far longer than if they were using their own MP. I've done this a few times for other Bards who were using Foe's. Makes it last for a long time, longer if Battle Voice'd. The only time I use Paeon is if a fight is going long and there's no casters in the party. Again, your songs don't affect you. Never have.

Well, except for Swift Song. But that's a special case. And Minuet isn't really a song, it's a stance.

It's very easy to notice the mp difference between Ballad and Foe/Paeon, so yes, Ballad does restore your mp as well. Paeon also grants you TP back. You've been a Bard on these forums for awhile, I'm honestly surprised you didn't know this. @_@

[Dante_V]

Whether they are classified in DF as "support" or not is irrelevant. It's semantics. At the end of the day it's a class that does less damage do to the support that it brings to the group. This is factually evident. Square thinks that group tp/mp regen abilities have enough use to create a general demand for the job even though their damage is lower. They are correct. Otherwise no one would bring them at all.