Living dead improvement ideas

[Delorean]

doesnt matter what it is, ppl always complain about skills like hg and holmgang.

pay better attention to the amount of damage you are taking and the amount of healing you are receiving and it won't be a problem nearly as often. It's meant to be used when you know that you are going to die. It's not supposed to be a skill that saves your life every time.

Be glad that it's effect didn't activate instead of complaining about how useless it is because you used it at the wrong time.

It doesn't NEED to be like HG, that's not what we're saying. It just needs some reworking so that the damn thing can actually be USED in a high paced fight where lots of movement is being done because as it stands it's not even half as good as holmgang or hollowed ground. But I'm positive Yoshi P and his staff have already realized this so it's only a matter of time before living dead gets a tweak. It needs it. It's a fact.

that's some exaggeration

i can think of quite a few scenarios where holmgang is mechanically worse than LD, so i wouldn't hold my breath if i were you

[Agrieus]

Okay, Delorean, since you have quite a few scenarios in mind where holmgang is mechanically worse than LD, lets hear them. Considering that you can just turn holmgang off whenever you wish, I'd really like to hear what you have to say. And I'm not bashing you in any way either...I just feel like for the sake of conversation here, those scenarios could prove to justify your thoughts.

[Giantbane]

doesnt matter what it is, ppl always complain about skills like hg and holmgang.

pay better attention to the amount of damage you are taking and the amount of healing you are receiving and it won't be a problem nearly as often. It's meant to be used when you know that you are going to die. It's not supposed to be a skill that saves your life every time.

Be glad that it's effect didn't activate instead of complaining about how useless it is because you used it at the wrong time.



that's some exaggeration

i can think of quite a few scenarios where holmgang is mechanically worse than LD, so i wouldn't hold my breath if i were you

I don't have a problem with how it works, I do have a problem that it becomes harder to recover from as the tank gears up and gets more HP. Eat food? That's extra hp that needs to be recovered if you use living dead. Doesn't that seem off?

If the amount needed to be recovered were some reasonable, fixed amount of hp based solely on level, that would be great.

I would also really appreciate some easier visual indication to the healers so that they *KNOW* when you're in zombie mode and they know they need to pour on the healing to clear it. If, as was suggested, the HP bar changed color to some obvious sickly green or something like that, that would be great. It would very clearly communicate that something was wrong that the healer needed to fix.

Otherwise it seems mechanically fine as is.

[Lorielle]

Completed unrelated, but did anyone take not that DRK has no ability that allows them to actually be immune to movement actions? PLD gets Tempered Will, WAR Holmgang, DRK = ? Lolinb4Plunge

[Illya]

It's not supposed to be like Hallowed Ground. That's the most powerful cooldown in the game. They're not going to give the other tanks an equivalent. Square clearly made the design decision that PLD is the main tank of this game.

It's a terrible decision as it marginalizes the other tank classes. Why even have multiple tank classes if one is the "anointed" MT of the game?

You're seriously underestimating Holmgang here. For any raid boss there's pretty much never any aoes targeted on the tank, and the majority of tankbusters are instant. You're talking about literally one tankbuster when Holmgang was amazing for things like Death Sentence, Critical Rip, Wild Charge, Revelation etc. Any decent WAR would time those so that you'd have about 5s after to get a decent amount of healing, and the 3m cooldown meant it could be used way more often than Hallowed.

That's all very interesting but Holmgang being good for several things doesn't make it not bad for the one thing I was talking about. Also the thing about things like Death Sentence, Critical Rip, Wild Charge, Revelation, etc. is those things aren't meant to blow your entire HP pool, so you Inner Beast them anyways (+1 additional CD as needed). You didn't need to Holmgang them so the point is largely moot.

Honestly I would be fine with Holmgang if they made 2 simple changes to it: (1) Make it 10 seconds like Hallowed Ground and Living Dead and (2) Make it not root you if your target is immune to the root. Those 2 changes and I'll accept Holmgang for what it is because it will actually be usable in most situations that Hallowed Ground and Living Dead are also usable.

[Lorielle]

It's a terrible decision as it marginalizes the other tank classes. Why even have multiple tank classes if one is the "anointed" MT of the game?

PLD is always going to be that unless there's a situation where it requires PLD's attention. To name a few back in the day, Ifrit HM. Twintania with Dread control, Leviathan Extreme, etc. PLD is just all around built to be the MT in most scenarios. Not saying the other classes CAN'T be the MT, but PLD just does it better for the most part.

[Giantbane]

Completed unrelated, but did anyone take not that DRK has no ability that allows them to actually be immune to movement actions? PLD gets Tempered Will, WAR Holmgang, DRK = ? Lolinb4Plunge

I noticed, hopefully it won't be an issue with the lvl 60 raid fights...

Honestly I would be fine with Holmgang if they made 2 simple changes to it: (1) Make it 10 seconds like Hallowed Ground and Living Dead and (2) Make it not root you if your target is immune to the root. Those 2 changes and I'll accept Holmgang for what it is because it will actually be usable in most situations that Hallowed Ground and Living Dead are also usable.

I still think holmgang was too many abilities mashed into a single one. Holmgang should be for the lock in place of both you and target. War should get a separate ability that prevents knockback and death (still doesn't let you drop below 1hp). Preferably 10s duration. Same cooldown since it's not full, healer can ignore you immunity like hallowed.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Farmed Ravana X and not one time did the Living Dead cd work. We finally gave up and just let the tank die. Every time. This was a scheduled cd use. WHM would Bene our DKN, and the living dead buff would remain active killing him 5 seconds later even though he had all his hp. We tested it outside the instance and it worked. But inside? Never. Maybe the worst thing about this cd is it's broken.

[Agrieus]

Holmgang was absolutely fantastic for charge during the t10 fight though....nobody can deny it's usefulness in that fight. And it's short(ish) CD made it even better.

[Illya]

Holmgang was absolutely fantastic for charge during the t10 fight though....nobody can deny it's usefulness in that fight. And it's short(ish) CD made it even better.

My raid group had the MT on the edge of the arena and we faced I'mdogood North/South, so the tail swipe would be aimed through the middle. Holmgang on charge during T10 would just have locked me in place and left me a sitting duck for the tail swipe following the charge.