Bard - they broke my job

[FateAudax]

Yoshi.P should've just said that they'll rework WM into another song and let us use EA and IJ without WM. Bards isn't Bow Mage!

[LLamaPie]

Snip

Well it's a start. They acknowledged the issue. Right now the song isn't worth using besides the start of the fight because 3s cast time is absurd.

What I think they will decide to do is buff WM on multiple facits:
1) Make it a 1s cast or instant cast like every other job's stance change.
2) Put auto attacks back in. The logic that they don't want the dps available while moving is stupid on a class that has a plethora of off GCD skills that are not affected by minuet's cast time.
3) Buff the % damage boost to the song to something near 30%.

I don't think anything short of this will fix it without reworking the way they have bard altogether. If the song existed as an option to bridge the gap to other dps while sacrificing most of our mobility I am fine with that. Prior to HW bard could top DPS in fights with a ton of movement, I think SE didn't like that for whatever reason.

[LLamaPie]

But ya the other thing is the base weapon damage on bows is incredibly low compared to other classes. That could be buffed to make up for some of the difference as well. Right now at best we do about 70% of everyone else besides MCN. That is way too low. Bard should be about 90%+.

[Viviza]

Good to see feedback on these things so quickly.

I'd much rather see potency bonuses to bring it more line with other dps

You are never going to see this. They were at one point, and got nerfed because in combination with their songs it made them desirable to the point of excluding other DPS jobs. BRD/MCH have abilities that justify their spot even if their DPS is lower, within reason, and it's that desirability that they're going to balance around, so all jobs feel wanted and useful.

You can argue and shout about this until your voice runs ragged, but in a game focused on team efforts there needs to be consideration for the enjoyment of all players, not just ones of your thinking. If you must be top or even competitive DPS, you are playing the wrong role. If you want to contribute to the success of the group, you are playing a much wanted and strong role.

[Urielparadox]

And that blm is doing 600 with or without the bard song? If it's with then make sure you calculate the blms added dmg back into your bards and out of their's. That is a dps differance of 15% give or take a few decimals. Now you are at 950 to a Blm/smn 1100, that's still 15%. I'm not saying your perfect as is. I Think WM should have a 1second/insta cast time so you can change without messing up your abilty, and a small buff to the dmg increase it does.

[Arrik]

snip

And my example shows that NIN contributes 1.6% dps to each pt member. If each pt member is doing 900 dps and the NIN is at 1100, his dps is now 1215 according to your logic, and thats assuming the slashing debuff is coming from somewhere else. Now of course the 900 is low on everything but mch, so the nin's dps, according to your own logic, would be even higher. So my argument is, by your logic, NIN is more support than brd is, and nobody seems to have a problem with them having more damage too. And before you start in on brd mobility, thatis taken away with WM. Keep in mind, I'm not for brd dpsing like a melee while retaining mobility, I'm saying when they act like a turret they should dps like one.
Progression is not only about picking members off the floor, it's about meeting mechanics checks. Take brd/mch as your only dps and have fun in EX primals. Oh wait, ppl are kicking mch during progression runs! Fat lot of good that utility brings them.

snip

Except it shows that the jobs utility isn't worth bringing a mch, and it isnt worth bringing more than one brd to fill a dps role, and yet there is no problem bringing 4 nin, 4 mnk, 4 drg without risk of failing dps requirement, the main focus of the role. And as soon as our "utility" comes into play, our main role falls farther behind. We weren't nerfed because dps, we were nerfed because mobility while doing so. And now we have no mobility.

[Kayko]

-snip-

Wow, this is just so backwards thinking. Do BRDs get a buff when they only have 1 caster in the party? is that buff doubled when there are no casters??? Along those lines, Do BRDs get a buff because the rest of the party is doing what they are supposed to be doing and not taking extra damage thus the healers MP is fine? Is there a buff for when melee don't TP starve themselves? No, BRDs are simply penalized for just having the songs, THEN penalized on top of that for using them.

What facts you are missing is that groups are already penalized for having multiples of jobs in the terms of the LB, it doesn't build as fast with more then one of the same job in the group. There is no stacking of groups.

Think of this group makeup, PLD, DRK, SMN, BRD, DRG, MNK, WHM, SCH.... That is a very valid group composition, there should be nothing wrong with this, but, as you are saying, this is wrong. No NIN and no double caster. Of those jobs in that group, which one do you think is first to be removed? The ones doing 1200 damage or the one doing 800 (effective lets say 900ish with foes for the 1 caster) or replace the BRD for a NIN who is going 1200 and brings a buff to increase everyones damage?

There is 8 man content in the game, it has been tested. This is not working, for lack of a better word, it is broken.


I'll add that I am not against WM in its current form and creates a "bow mage" There is still plenty of movement available to have it work out fine for most encounters. Yes, the ability needs to be put more on a CD like Cleric Stance is, but it shouldn't be a type of stance dancing mechanic that you put it on for 1 or 2 shots then take it off again. The job itself in it's basic form needs work. Again, BRD should not be penalized for having the ballads, then penalized for using them (even removing the damage penalty is not enough as the 3 second cast time is a base issue)

I would actually prefer to see the bonus damage while in WM to be removed honestly. More can be done to make WM useful without having a flat % added in damage. Things that would affect party makeups like the one I listed. Could do things like having Foes also reduce targets physical resistance while under the effects of WM. Or, Mage's Ballad also increase TP regen by a slight amount and vice-verse for Army's. Damage increases could come for doing things like Dot criticals have a 75% or even 100% chance to reset Bloodletter or Heavy shot gets a 30-50% chance to proc Straighter Shot. So much more can be done with Wander's Minuet, increasing the percentage or reducing it's cast time is NOT a solution and does nothing to address the raw damage difference between DAMAGE DEALER jobs, in which a BRD is. BRD is not "Support," there is no "Support" category in this game.

[Viviza]

dps requirement, the main focus of the role

You are playing the wrong job.

[Urielparadox]

According to the bard dps threads I'm reading bards are at 950, not 800. Your taking my statement and lowering bard numbers but keeping other numbers the same. Not only that I'm giving you facts that's SE has to consider when balancing a job and you twisting my words in a way I have no idea how you did it.

For parsing on a dummy versus coil. Take for instance a monk. It's mew abilities won't shine until a mob has a 8+ second phase change. Unless your dps is super high you aren't seeing this in bismark ex. However currently in coil you see multiple phase changes like that in a lot of fights. T2, T5, T9, T10, t11, t12, t13. How can you parse an ability on a dummy or in a fight without phase changes with extra down time that is designed to be used when those things happen

[Arrik]

You are playing the wrong job.

'Cept I'm pretty sure when I queue it's as a dps....maybe this is the bard you are looking for? http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bard

Edit: It's also not the only job I play, or the only role. But it does queue as a dps and as such should be able to contribute dps enough to clear content, even in DF when you can and will get multiple of certain jobs within a role.

And also, if that is the Bard you are looking for, I'll fill that role too. But you better give me my loot for contributing nothing to dmg to full support.