Bard - they broke my job

[LLamaPie]

Personally I am not opposed to WM they just need to make it better. I get why they under powered it. You need to remember all the times bard was op af. Back in beta 2 RoD put an aoe damage amp out. Back in 2.0 bard was easily top dps and offered the most utility at the same time. They're trying to keep it so bard is only good to have 1 in a party. But ya they need tp fix it asap

[HiranaiVashai]

So many things posted here, glad there are many who voice for adjustments to the new abilities. The utility of Wanderer's Minuet does have issues. Only thing I feel worth mentioning about it as a solution would be making it a toggle a la Sword/Shield Oath instead of Cleric Stance. Triggering the global cooldown for the cast like a spell, as songs are considered spells. But instead make it an instant cast like paladin stances/regen or a 1 second cast like Swiftsong, no MP cost as it is. I feel like the 3 second casting time is only suited for the radius based songs like Ballad/Paeon/Requiem.

What I would rather make suggestions about is the utility of the Warden's Paean. It's utility is extremely low to a point where it's not worth using at all in it's current iteration. I tested it's effect on bad breath just earlier since it's a single attack that adds up to 8(!) debuffs in 1 action. I was disgruntled to see the effect of the song nullify only 1 debuff instead of a few, or all of the attack. Resulting in the person still getting affected by 7 debuffs out of the normal 8 inflicted. A cast time of 3 seconds, with a 30 second duration, on 1 person given it being oneself, a party member or a pet within the party only to be saved from 1, maybe minor detrimental effect where more severe ones might still hinder the afflicted person. This has no beneficial utility, only sacrifices.

My suggestions for it's changes would be one of the following:
1) Increased duration time that persists nullifying detrimental effects for it's full duration on 1 party member.

2) Reduce it's cast time to instant or 1 second and have it's range/radius work like Cure III.
e.g. Nullifying all detrimental effects of a single attack on target and all nearby party members and pets.

3) Keep a cast time, maybe a custom one towards it (as long as it's not more than 3 seconds), but make it's radius like Medica/Succor/Helix where it nullifies either a single detrimental effect or all detrimental effects of a single attack, on self and all party members within range.

While I never expected a song like the Warden's Paean as an addition, I do feel like it was created with a right mindset, yet it's implementation was very poorly executed. I feel with my 3 minor suggestions towards it will increase it's utility to be at least acceptable and situational rather than useless all together as it is at this very moment.

[Kayote]

Guess I should put my (possibly long) 2gil on this thread as well since its here....

The mobility thing: I like WM for what it is. Unlike some, I got into Bard because of what it is (the archer), not because I can be the annoying kid running and jumping all over the place everywhere during a fight. Always play the Bow and Arrow class despite the fact its usually shoehorned in as the pet class, or some kind of weak(er) DPS than others and utility hybrid, like they do here. LotRO Hunter being my favorite one so far thanks to it being the caster and glass cannon of the game back then since Tolkien wasnt big on magic (until the Runekeeper).

This WM makes sense to me. Archers should have to aim to get the perfect shot in. Yes they dont necessarily need to stay still and there are even videos of very talented "battle archers" doing some impressive trick shots but if you notice, those shots are weak, barely able to pierce styrofoam much less the hide of a primal. For max damage Archers need a good stance, max pull and a good aim. If there is to be a mobile RDPS class, let it be the MCH which to me makes more sense (IMO) with the whole run-n-gun thing.

That said, WM does need some major work done. Right off the bat I can tell its a DPS drop and I have no reason to doubt those at end game who say its no different. Furthermore I dont mind the casting but we need to be able to chain them just like any other caster can. For example, a BLM can hit their next spell at around 75% cast of the previous one and the next spells starts casting immediately after. Not so for Bards in WM. We have to wait for the cast AND animation to finish before starting the next shot. This fix should let us loose shots much faster, thus giving a good DPS boost we need.

Then there is the auto-shot... it doesnt make any sense for it to be disabled, and seeing as our DPS is worse than ever, it wasnt even really necessary for balance. Bring it back. Didnt even notice how important it was to our overall DPS until it was gone. Honestly with the chain casting, and a return on auto-attack I think we can at least be brought back up to where we were pre-3.0 or better .... however!...

..... please stop pigeon-holing us into sub-par DPS just because we have buff songs. We're DPS, there is no utility role in this game. Whatever SE does next, they should bring us up to the same levels as other DPS. Sure, we have better armor than Mages, but they have much better CC. Can Bards completely take a mob (or two) out of the picture until theyre good and ready? No, not really. We have a bind thats on a fairly long CD, really only effective on melee, and lasts like 10(?) seconds. Any slow's? Not that Ive seen. Heals? Yeah right.

Songs are barely used too. I mean a fight really needs to drag for a while for them to be any use and Foe's Requiem isnt any better than the debuffs other classes have. You want to avoid that demand we had in the beginning? Increase the damage penalty while playing Peon or M.Ballad. I dont care how much. There is no amount of damage penalty we can recieve thatll override a healer running out of mana or a tank running out of TP towards the end of a fight. None.

[Classikal]

They should just make Minuet a self attack buff song. Same as all the others. Make it use MP, etc. Make us choose the better song for the situation. Minuet, Requiem, etc.

[VraeliaValkyria]

While we are talking about Minuet taking away our autoattacks, what the heck is up with Barrage? It would give us many autoattack's before wearing off. But now....Barrage is a one time thing then it wears. What the heck is up wit that? And why in the heck is Rain of Death linked to Bloodletter recast time? And why don't we get our AoE combo anymore? This is poor design as well. I enjoyed using my AoE, but without the 'free combo's that I had, AoEing is basically wasting TP. Yeah, it's awesome to have a 'free' Rain of Death. But, not at the cost of it being linked with Bloodletter. This needs to be removed and allow us back our AoE combos. And give us back our old Barrage. Yeah, I love having Iron Jaws to save TP (instead of using 2 skills to constantly reapply my DoTs) but, things need fixed, obviously.

[QCrimson]

Yeah, it's awesome to have a 'free' Rain of Death. But, not at the cost of it being linked with Bloodletter.

Really ? I feel like it made BRD's AoE DPS much stronger than it was before.

Speaking of which, isn't it possible to have a perma Rain of Death debuff uptime with very little DPS loss now ?

[VraeliaValkyria]

If you really think it makes it stronger, then heck....link even Wide Volley and Quick Nock with Bloodletter. I guarantee you BRDs will complain about having our AoEs linked with another skill that was meant to be spammed. Now, we cannot spam Bloodletter nor our AoEs. I don't even use Quick Nock anymore because I relied on the free combo action that is started with Wide Volley then Rain of Death then Quick Nock. Nock is like a wasted AoE weaponskill now to us BRDs. We really need our combo back, every other job has an in depth combo action....why nerf us extremely with not having our own AoE combo action?

[QCrimson]

I guarantee you BRDs will complain about having our AoEs linked with another skill that was meant to be spammed. Now, we cannot spam Bloodletter nor our AoEs.

How so ? Apply your dots on two or three mobs on you'll have frequent if not constant RoD resets, in my opinion this is far more powerful than the free AoE you were granted every blue moon.

[Furyan]

I don't even use Quick Nock anymore because I relied on the free combo action that is started with Wide Volley then Rain of Death then Quick Nock. Nock is like a wasted AoE weaponskill now to us BRDs. We really need our combo back, every other job has an in depth combo action....why nerf us extremely with not having our own AoE combo action?

Correct me if I'm wrong but actually Quick Knock is more valuable than Wide Volley now. Quick Knock is 20 less TP than Wide Volley and is the same potency, so the most optimal way is to buff > DoTs > Spam Quick Knock > Enjoy LOTS of Rain of Death procs.

If you are using Wide Volley over Quick Knock now then you're just wasting TP...

[VraeliaValkyria]

Even having DoTs up on 4 targets doesn't give you the constant reset, it all depends on luck for your DoTs to proc. I can get around 20 Bloodletter resets, sometimes I only get very few. Yes, putting it up on multiple targets is heightening your chances, but it is not a guarantee. It all comes down to luck with your DoTs. I do not want one of my AoEs linked with Bloodletter. Why is Rain of Death now, necessary to be linked with my Bloodletter? It doesn't make sense. And it also doesn't make sense with Barrage, and taking away our AoE combo.