Competative dps for BRD and MCH

[Leonus]

Let's boot Summoner and Black Mage quick! Whenever there has been a raiding DPS check early on in content, yes you'll see 4 melee, hell you'll probably see 4 monks.

Let's also not forget the mechanics they add in fights includes ranged stuff, we're not getting a free ride sitting 10 yalms out.

I don't see many of those. It's not even CLOSE to the norm. What will become the norm though is if rdps can go dead even with mdps, groups will not EVER take a mdps if a rdps is available. That will be commonplace, just like back in 2.0. Why bring mdps when a rdps can do the same with and handle mechanics better (overall)? The only way I would compromise as a player is to make melee AoE as strong as rdps AND make all melee gap closers usable every 2.5 seconds.

That way we can handle mechanics far away from the boss like rdps and get back instantly, whenever and from wherever. That would make things even.

[Panasync]

I don't see many of those. It's not even CLOSE to the norm. What will become the norm ...

What about Summoner and Black Mage? What is your excuse for their existence and DPS? Back in 2.0 we also almost exclusively used 2 PLD parties, the whole debuff to the LB was in response to job stacking. Not to mention fight design has changed to not just be a bunch of up close mob AoE's but RAIDWIDE mechanics that everyone deals with, not just melee. If people are stacking ranged because a fight is so punishing to melee, that is a fight design issue, not a job one.

Check any DPS content that was close to release (Turn 8 is an example) where raiding DPS is an absolute necessity, in an effort to push these DPS checks people would use multiple monks because of lack of gear (was only obtainable by doing the dungeon with weekly lockouts).

Do a search for Turn X world first, count the monks, because they're typically stacking at least 2.

[Leonus]

What about Summoner and Black Mage? What is your excuse for their existence and DPS? Back in 2.0 we also almost exclusively used 2 PLD parties, the whole debuff to the LB was in response to job stacking. Not to mention fight design has changed to not just be a bunch of up close mob AoE's but RAIDWIDE mechanics that everyone deals with, not just melee. If people are stacking ranged because a fight is so punishing to melee, that is a fight design issue, not a job one.

Now i'm confused, so if they designed the fights to be less punishing to melee. People would complain. Now that everyone has to deal with mechanics, people complain. There is no pleasing this community as a whole. People will flock to ranged because it is generally the EASIER thing to do. People generally do what is easier that allows them to achieve the same results or better. That's what happened in 2.0 with brd.

Give everyone equal damage, give melee rdps AoE abilities and the ability to punch/peirce/slash a mob from the distance of casting a spell or firing an arrow or bullet (Wouldn't need gap closers at this point). Give all the Rdps the single target dps of a melee. All problems are solved. No one can complain, only way to please people (and then people would still complain).

Check any DPS content that was close to release (Turn 8 is an example) where raiding DPS is an absolute necessity, in an effort to push these DPS checks people would use multiple monks because of lack of gear (was only obtainable by doing the dungeon with weekly lockouts).

The groups i saw generally only stacked two monks. IF it makes you feel any better, stacking two monks takes a spot away from all other dps. Not just ranged, this includes drgs and nins.

Do a search for Turn X world first, count the monks, because they're typically stacking at least 2.

Exactly this. Usually people would bring BRDs to those progression parties, (the only class almost 100% garunteed a spot in ANY party during ARR) kinda hard to survive without songs for TP/MP during progression content. The brds also usually focused on the mechanics moreso to ALLOW the melee dps (the mnks really) to push. There was almost always 2 rdps in those parties, usually one spot was ALWAYS a bard, the other was blm/smn.

It's whatever at this point. Let Rdps match melee dps, then it will be the mdps' turn to complain and ask for buffs. Never ending cycle.

[Panasync]

...

Firstly you don't make things easier for one or the other, you balance the fight so it is a challenge ideally equally to both ranged and melee. Again fight issue, not job. Secondly you even state later on that bards need to support, dps, and handle mechanics so melee can push dps, you think that's easier than simply doing your rotation on a mob? God forbid you be forced to hit your combos while we have to maximize our dps because it's naturally lower, support abilities for you, and handle the mechanics, while you simply do a combo. Also in response to bard in 2.1 didn't all they do was change B4B (which was changed for all non-main DRG) and switch our RoD from damage- to acc-? Bard has never been top DPS even in 2.0, the potential has always been skewed how it is now.

Lastly, you keep ignoring my questions about Summoner and Black Mage, they're ranged, do top end damage, why aren't we stacking 3 blm and a brd? Black Mages are RESOURCELESS to boot.

[Athism]

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.


Fixes: Well i believe a few things could do it:25% WM(might be asking too much but increase ws/dot potency as well), enable autoattacks during WM and eliminate dmg penalty for songs(why? because the whole reason for it was BRD's ability to move and dps, that's no longer an issue). Also OGCD timers reduced(SW).

I feel this way based on what SE did for blm. Yeah blm can't move and cast but when they do cast they do burst dmg. Brd should be the same way seeing they turned us into casters. I do love our burst now, but we just can't sustain the dps. I don't want brd to be king dps, i just want us to be able to contribute.

[Lewtskie]

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

I'm with ya, man. And I just haven't the heart right now to level other shit so I'm just stuck in limbo at 56 until I decide something.

[Panasync]

I'm with ya, man. And I just haven't the heart right now to level other shit so I'm just stuck in limbo at 56 until I decide something.

There is no way they'll leave the jobs in this state. How long, and how much of an improvement anyone could guess though.

[Warlyx]

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

BISEX? lmao well after shiva extreme....

BRD was awesome in 2.0 for lots of reasons , titan HM was a "pain" , and brd was the perfect job for it since it could move and dps , plus u needed silences in Turn 1-2 , being able to move and dps , silence and songs were "WOAH" plus brd was "ok" dps in 2.0 , and every patch from 2.0 onweard, brd was getting behind in the arms dps race , every dps got some love , i cant remember but im sure blm and smn received some fixes , and drg got some buffs (a bit late ) , war was buffed too (was in dire need of love to be fair).

[Ooshima]

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

The real test for BRD/MCN is Alex Savage, not any of the extreme primals.

The fact is, yes BRD and MCN have issues but Bismark/Ravana EX isn't that difficult to get past with BRD/MCN either. People that I play with are getting past them even before obtaining an average IL of 170. If the group can't even get past this then the fundamental problem is elsewhere, no amount of tweaks to BRD/MCN will get the group past Alex Savage.

So yes you should still proceed with your EX clears now. To when do you want to wait? Go ahead and calculate how long did they took to fix Dragoons.

[Sessurea]

i cant wait to see alex savage. Skill ceiling rose so high on other jobs these days im pretty sure alex savage should do some severe hurt to at least non brd dps. It's beyond unrealistic for blms and drgs to achieve dps comparable to dummy dps, always was ofc but now so much more so. I bet if brd receives a small buff and a few tweaks dps figures shouldn't be varying as greatly in a fight worth talking about and not lolextreme primals.

I really laugh when I see groups blaming brd for failing bis ex when brd does probably the most dps on bismarks back if he saves cds. Bismark is such a triviality, it's more a "do u know your rotation and know how to burst" check than dps check. Bis ex has no gate, like how garuda ex gated titan ex, so you are gonna see all types of players in pf...