The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Allyrion]

Hey, for Ninja, if you're counting Smoke Screen you should count Shadewalker too.
It's not just a personal enmity reduction since it gives our enmity to the tank.

Also, Goad.

I guess I'm not helping.

[SovereignAegis]

Hey, for Ninja, if you're counting Smoke Screen you should count Shadewalker too.
It's not just a personal enmity reduction since it gives our enmity to the tank.

Also, Goad.

Ah yes Goad, the legendary ability that also restores TP like what we pay a premium for!

[Zophar]

See, I always just thought the lower base damage was the trade off for mobility, and that brds are barely inconvenienced by fight mechanics, not support.

[Pluvia]

Ah yes Goad, the legendary ability that also restores TP like what we pay a premium for!

Yea man goad its too op has no CD and allows us to continue our own rotation infinitely Am i RIGHT. You also need to bold Battle Litany- Increases critical hit rate of self and party members by 15% because I'm pretty sure that's going to scale better then trick attack as the Expansion goes along. Also don't forget your song Foe Requiem it doesn't lower your damage.

Yes WM and GB need to not be as shitty as they are but its a cold hard fact that that is the reason BRD and Machinist dps is lower then others. Look back at 2.0 bard were the same dps as everyone else guess what its all people wanted.

[Ryaz]

See, I always just thought the lower base damage was the trade off for mobility, and that brds are barely inconvenienced by fight mechanics, not support.

Except that it's untrue for the most part. Even ranged classes have to dodge a lot of aoes and I lose casts all the time. It's why Gauss barrel isn't really worth it. True, melee has to run from some melee attacks and without WM/GB Bard and MCH can continue firing while dodging, but the amount of lost damage from melee is minor compared to the overall low dps that these two classes have, which is made worse by the cast times and loss of auto attacks. Not only do other classes have loads of support, but their base weapon damage is higher AND their potencies are far higher. They also aren't reliant on RNG procs.

So, melee has better damage, similar utility and better mobility now that WM/GB are needed to use several of our job abilities. What do the ranged physical dps have over them? Not much.

@Pluvia: Our turrets have no cooldown, but suck our mana dry for that regen and we lose a big chunk of our dps for using them. When I goad someone it takes two seconds to use and I'm back to fighting again. Whether or not it's better than our regen buffs isn't the point-- it's still a great utility skill.

[Underdog2204]

Snip

Which as not ok ofc.

It's ok for everyone to always want Dragoons, Ninja's, Summoner and Black Mages though right? Pfft it's fine so long as it suits you I suppose...

Also what does MCH offer that requires the exact same penalties that is should mirror bard exactly? I'm sorry I must've forgot the are two different jobs. I guess whatever happens to BLM should happen to SMN's then and vice versa... It is kinda funny how you automatically jumped to "I'm not op! Look at Dragoon!" when no-one claimed a job was op, everyone is saying the damage reduction constantly for just being a physical ranged dps is far too much and is the root cause of the issue.

That "fact" is not "fact" at all. That is your own bias thinking "I should be a better dps all the time and keep my extra tools for no penalty... They have to be penalized just because they choose that job in the first place though. How dare they want to be useful outside of being my own personal buff bot!"

Well that's what i get from it all anyway :P

I wonder if those same people who are ok with bard being a lower dps would be ok with astro healing 15-30% less than whm/sch since they bring a lot of buffs as well.

Which is kinda funny since alot of buffs is constituted a high cost mp/tp regen apparently.

Ignoring the fact people have their own skills for managing their own ^^

I made no mention of WB. I'm talking pre WB brd. And, WB makes no difference as it is basically for openers, and AoE situations only. BRD for the most part plays the same as it always did. Also didn't say the damage vs mobility was balanced, just said I assumed that was the reasoning behind it, which makes sense to me.

So what is SMN's excuse for having such high dps?

They need a flat -25-30% damage reduction for having more utility than BLM's and being very mobile... It's only fair...

Or is is one rule for one and one for another? It cannot be used as a justifiaction for one and then not for another. All melee classes are mobile too, yet to see one have to stand still to do anything. From my experiance they can stand in one spot far more often than any ranged class too.

This stupid post limit is annyoing the hell out of me....

[Fatshine]

Actually SMN AOE is stronger than BLM at the moment. You might want to reword that Casters have no rivals except WHM.

[Taban]

I wonder if those same people who are ok with bard being a lower dps would be ok with astro healing 15-30% less than whm/sch since they bring a lot of buffs as well.

[Warlyx]

I wonder if those same people who are ok with bard being a lower dps would be ok with astro healing 15-30% less than whm/sch since they bring a lot of buffs as well.

dont forget war , dmg on par with brd/mch , slashing debuff, -10% dmg taken ....if only drk could maintain the -10% debuff aswell...

[Zophar]

So, melee has better damage, similar utility and better mobility now that WM/GB are needed to use several of our job abilities. What do the ranged physical dps have over them? Not much.

I made no mention of WB. I'm talking pre WB brd. And, WB makes no difference as it is basically for openers, and AoE situations only. BRD for the most part plays the same as it always did. Also didn't say the damage vs mobility was balanced, just said I assumed that was the reasoning behind it, which makes sense to me.