SE,we Mac users do not deserve this third class treatment!

[KrelianJudah]

If you can get them to respond to your ticket...

You have to go to the store and ask for refund, not ffxiv support (they wont answer) the link to the store tickets is: https://store.na.square-enix.com/docs/email_support

I got my refund as many of us did for the same reason, just put "An order or pre order" and then "return" (refund).

[KaedrianLiang]

This is why so many of us have kept our MBP for years without worrying too much about its performance.

proving my point. "for years without worrying too much about its performance." can be said for windows platform PC's and laptops. MBP's aren't special, they are made in the same factories where HP, Dell and Acer products are made.

I've had my thinkpad for 5 years. it can play the game, although not very well 20-30fps at lowest settings. The thinkpad i use for basic user needs. I have a MSI laptop for my personal use. Locks HW at 60 FPS on maximum + more driver level tweaking to make it even more detailed. Can't do that with a MBP, the best part, $1000 USD cheaper than the highest spec MBP.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Nadirah]

With the official post published today, they are basically blaming us and asking us to deal with it.

What?

Haven't seen this.

[Brianmj]

Here is another response

Greetings,

I'm Hideyuki Kasuga, the lead programmer of FFXIV.

Thank you so much for all the feedback on the Mac version of FFXIV.

I’d like to take this time to address the comments about the performance of the Mac version in comparison to the Windows version by explaining the specifics and how we will address them moving forward. This is going to be another one of my long posts since it deals with technical elements, so please bear with me.

To start off, I’d like to explain the reason why the performance of the Mac version on the same machine with the same settings is lower than that of the Windows version.

There are three main factors for this difference in performance.

The first factor is the graphics API set.

For the Windows version of the game, DirectX is used as the graphics API, while OpenGL is used for the Mac version. Though Windows has OpenGL as well, when it comes to the drawing systems for games such as FFXIV, the performance of OpenGL is inferior to that of DirectX. Due to this difference in the graphics API, when using a Mac with the same standards as Windows, it will not be possible to reach the same performance as the Windows version. To put it simply, Windows is equipped with a large amount of elements for creating games while Mac does not have as many, and due to this, differences in fundamental performance arises.

The second factor is system-related.

There are aspects of the thread process scheduling for program parallelization that can be tuned by the Windows version that cannot be tuned by the Mac version. Due to this, situations arise where performance will not be elicited for portions of the game’s parallelization processing and the processing time for frames will be unstable. When comparing this aspect between Windows and Mac, no matter how you look at it there will be areas where performance differences arise.

Finally, the third factor is the system used to create the Mac version.

The Mac version of FFXIV uses the same executable files as the Windows version, and it was created using middleware that allows for functions of Windows to be converted into functions that can be executed on a Mac. This middleware is constantly running for the Mac version, which is an overhead not found in the Windows version. However, this is not a Windows emulator; it is middleware that transposes various types of functions so that they can be properly ran on a Mac. One example where this system is used is for converting the functions of DirectX into OpenGL.

When putting the above three factors together and comparing the Mac version to the Windows version, the Mac version will not reach the same level of performance as the Windows version with the same equipment and settings.

Furthermore, with the graphics and system balance found in Macs, the more characters that are drawn on the game screen then the more severe the drop in performance will be. After checking the recommended specs for the Mac version once more, you can make adjustments to the performance based on your system environment by going to “System Configuration,” clicking on “Other Settings” and then changing the “Character and Object Quantity.” If performance is severely dropping when a large amount of characters are displayed, I recommend trying to adjust this setting and improvements in performance can be expected.

Due to the aforementioned factors, the current Mac version’s performance is not on par with the Windows version. Since there are aspects that are dependent on the Mac OS system, we are unable to make improvements on the FFXIV application side for these. However, the development team will be working to improve the aspects that they can address, and we’ll be continuing to fine tune the Mac version with patches as needed.

Additionally, as one method for improving the capabilities of the Mac version, we think there are aspects that can be improved by using the DirectX 11 version for the Mac version, so we would like to look into releasing a DirectX 11 version that can run on Mac.

One thing I would like to add with is that Apple has announced their next Mac OS, El Capitan, will have features that may largely improve the performance for running various games. We’ll be talking to Apple about this and continue to make performance improvements so that the gaming experience on Macs are even better.

[LeonWhitehart]

Here is another response

Thank you for sharing it here. I have seen this reply in an earlier post. Well, finally some responses from them. In essence, they are saying that a native Mac version will not happen and we will have to live with this for the foreseeable future.

[AmbOcclusion]

The post from the lead programmer is such a non-response that it leans toward offensive. He's basically saying that it's not worth their time because (he perceives) that the Mac version will never even come close to PC performance. If they had built it from the ground up in-house (or outsourced it to a company that would do that) instead of using a WINE wrapper, this problem wouldn't exist.

He states that it uses OpenGL for rendering, then contradicts himself by stating they use a DirectX translation system. I don't think they should be focusing resources on bringing DirectX 11 features to a platform that can't run the normal game yet, and should instead focus on rewriting the game. If they continue with a non-native build of the game, there will never be a Mac machine ever that will run this game at a reasonable framerate. WINE wrappers don't scale.

[Nemna]

You have to go to the store and ask for refund, not ffxiv support (they wont answer) the link to the store tickets is: https://store.na.square-enix.com/docs/email_support

I got my refund as many of us did for the same reason, just put "An order or pre order" and then "return" (refund).

This worked for me this morning! They told me my order was canceled and a refund would follow within 7 days. I never thought I'd be so pleased to be heading back to Boot Camp.

[Delily]

The post from the lead programmer is such a non-response that it leans toward offensive. He's basically saying that it's not worth their time because (he perceives) that the Mac version will never even come close to PC performance. If they had built it from the ground up in-house (or outsourced it to a company that would do that) instead of using a WINE wrapper, this problem wouldn't exist.

He states that it uses OpenGL for rendering, then contradicts himself by stating they use a DirectX translation system. I don't think they should be focusing resources on bringing DirectX 11 features to a platform that can't run the normal game yet, and should instead focus on rewriting the game. If they continue with a non-native build of the game, there will never be a Mac machine ever that will run this game at a reasonable framerate. WINE wrappers don't scale.

Let me clarify his response about that first section: the graphics API on OS X is Vulkan, and it's the spiritual successor to OpenGL. On Windows, DirectX (or more specifically Direct3D) is significantly faster than OpenGL for many reasons, chief among them is that nVidia has a LOT of extensions optimized for Direct3D. Even if they did built a client that used OpenGL (on Windows) there would be performance degradation. So, what's saying is that an OpenGL would not be as fast as a DirectX client, which is true.

His comments about thread scheduling are the most puzzling to me. I'm not very familiar with OS X's multithreading library, but if I had to guess, Cider doesn't handle that well.

His last few comments are most telling. The most significant change to OS X in El Capitan is the inclusion of the Metal API, which is what iOS uses. I interpret his comments to mean that they'll be working with Apple to figure how to switch over to Metal from Vulkan, if not outright built a client.

[Brianmj]

Let me clarify his response about that first section: the graphics API on OS X is Vulkan, and it's the spiritual successor to OpenGL. On Windows, DirectX (or more specifically Direct3D) is significantly faster than OpenGL for many reasons, chief among them is that nVidia has a LOT of extensions optimized for Direct3D. Even if they did built a client that used OpenGL (on Windows) there would be performance degradation. So, what's saying is that an OpenGL would not be as fast as a DirectX client, whic.

The graphics API for OS X is OpenGL, Vulkan hasn't been released yet. Apple hasn't said anything about supporting Vulkan.

[Delily]

The graphics API for OS X is OpenGL, Vulkan hasn't been released yet. Apple hasn't said anything about supporting Vulkan.

Correct you are! I'm still learning this stuff so it's good when people point out my mistakes.