Quote Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
No, 20% more defense. Much, much less than 20% reduction. Besides other issues. You don't have holmgang on there. And if you count Grit you need to count Defiance's hp and healing buffs. Those amount to very nearly the exact same thing as Grit (or Sword Oath for that matter)

IMO Shadow Wall needs to take vengeance's timer or gain a pretty big secondary effect to justify the timer.
Yup, I did mistype Foresight, but since both jobs have access to it, the typo isn't really relevant. And yes, I did forget Holmgang, apologies. Though since Living Dead and Holmgang are similar, again it's not really a big deal.

I can count Grit because it gives damage reduction. The only mitigation-related part of Defiance is Parry. If you want me to include all the HP stuff as well, then I'd have to do so far DRK too, and again it comes out as very comparable.

And I do agree Shadow Wall needs some tweaking, but only because it's a direct copy of Sentinel minus the 10% bonus Paladin has from their trait (making Sentinel 40%). Personally I like the idea of adding a small "Darkness" absorption shield or something.

But that wasn't the point. The point is you can't just take two skills out of context, put them in a vacuum and make judgments. You have to consider the whole package.