XI-2 was released this past September, or didn't you notice?

[whoopeeragon]

Thank you SO much for using your extensive background knowledge of FF titles to help ppl recognize how foolish they look when they try to disregard the similarities between XIV and XI. Do you realize you just contradicted yourself completely? Look at how many DIFFERENT FF titles you had to draw from to find similarities between previous FF titles and FFXIV. That is my ENTIRE point. Please, EVERYONE, stop ASSUMING that I think this is, LITERALLY, XI-2. That was a sarcastic remark made in an attempt to rally the ANTI-FFXI ppl into making logical arguments against why SE *shouldn't* draw from FFXI as a base for the new updates. All I ever see from any of you is stuff like this: "This isn't XI-2, it's XIV; why do you keep bringing XI up?" "Go play XI. K, thnx bai." "F$%# XI." Over and over and over again, nothing productive ever comes from "your" side (anti-FFXI ppl). So, why don't you ppl quit being so close-minded, and contribute.

Then change you topic title and your opening post. You may have said that you don't want a FFXI-clone, but your subsequent actions lead people to think otherwise. People change, and we can't assume that you'll keep your opinion. And your attitude. Your attitude seems to be all FFXI-2 YAYF*RKYEALLPEOPLEWHOHATEFFXI and people will obviously misunderstand. You obviously didn't bother reading through the rest of my post. I've tired to be constructive; I've drawn parallels all over the goddamn farking universe of Final Fantasy and gaming to this game. Why don't you READ more before just assuming and assuming, as you seem to be complaining about?

Where did I once say that I am an anti-FFXI? I even MENTIONED to draw aspects from your freaking beloved FFXI! No, instead you nit-pick out what you termed me to be from your damned stereotype, and insulted me without looking through the rest of the post. I've made it so that FFXIV doesn't NEED to remain ANYTHING but FFXIV, and that's that, but instead, you choose to nitpick on my post about using other FF's as reference in which I, satirically, give 'logical' reasons as to why FFXIV should be renamed. And then you yell at me for it. Why? Why on goddamn world do you not read more than you want? And you wonder why people bear this attitude towards you and your topics?

Get off your high horse and learn to look beneath the words. You said that you provided a sarcastic view, and that's fine, but somehow, I make a satirical paragraph, and I get yelled at? Please. I am seriously pissed at how you just dismissed my remarks and numerous others that have contributed perfectly fine to your topic. Learn respect, and then others will respect you.

Oh, and I see NOWHERE where I contradicted myself. I have kept to my view that FFXIV should draw more from the other MMO SE have done that was successful, which is FFXI, but I also want it to draw more aspects from OTHER games, be it FF or outside sources. But I also want it to be unique in its own damn way. If what I said happens to contradict me, please, provide me a thesis into how I did so, because I cannot see WHERE I have decided otherwise.

[Khal_Drogo]

We already have 3 more genders confirmed, and there is a new race already. And more are to come. Are you saying that, to turn this into a FFXI-2, let us scrap the new class (I don't know the name, the one with horns) and remove all future races which we can have, remove the genders which have been confirmed, continue making Miqo'te females the powerhouse of their race, and make Roegadyns start reincarnating?

First of all, I read your entire post from beginning to end, but I found no reason to add to the quote I posted of your post. I wasn't attacking you, personally. I was using your statements as a means of "attacking" anti-FFXI ppl. I didn't mean to get you so upset lol

I was pretty pissed, myself, back when I posted that. The level of ignorance people were displaying, and the blatant denial of obvious facts was just to overwhelming to tolerate. Second, the whole reincarnation thing about Galka...it was a running joke if I'm not mistaken. Like the Mithra males, we just never saw any of them. And a Mithra male did appear in one of the FFXI expansions. Whether or not their role was one of power or not, was never fully explained, but that means little to nothing. As for the "evidence" of you contradicting yourself, I thought it should be apparent: You stated that XI and XIV have as much in common with each other as they do because they draw from previous FF titles, and not because XIV drew off XI. Then, you proceeded to name a long list of FF titles that have many similarities w/ both XI and XIV, which is to be expected. However, what you failed to realize is that XI and XIV have more in common with one *another, than any other FF titles before it have ever had in common with each other (aside from, LITERAL, sequels). By naming as many FF titles as you did, trying to show the extensive number of commonalities between "all" FF titles, you actually ended up reaffirming my initial statement: FFXI has more in common with FFXIV than any other FF games have ever had in common with one another. And the only way to find similarities that BOTH games share with each other *as well as other FF titles, is to name off at least 5 different FF titles that came before them. I don't know enough about each and every single FF game that's ever been released. Hell, I don't think I was even "alive" for all of them. However, all that aside, even if there *are two other FF titles out there that have just as significant of an amount of similarities between them, it doesn't dispute the fact that XIV and XI are *very similar. Yes, you can break things down into EXTREME detail, and say they're nothing alike: "Oh, Roegadyn don't have a dimple on the left cheek of of their face, right next to the pronounced lower jaw like in XI....they're nothing alike!" (not a real feature...just trying to prove a point). But, either way, the facts are the facts. They are very similar because SE wanted to repeat and increase the success they had in the MMO world. And they didn't simply cater to FF fans in general; they wanted to make sure XI fans, in particular, would come back to support them in their endeavor (the only audience they could 100% count on to support them, because even I, a MAJOR FF fan, was hesitant about XI when I saw it). And the only way to ensure that their XI fans "jumped aboard" was to make a "fake sequel." The races aren't just the same, the face choices are the same. They're the same damn ppl, and this is an online game where "everyone" is different. As for the reference about bringing back characters from or to FFT or w/e you were talking about. It doesn't really apply here because the setting in which they were "brought back" was entirely different. This is an MMO. It's FF's 2nd MMO, so it's only natural that they're going to be, virtually, identical.

Anyway, when we all say "identical" and "similar," we aren't talking about every SINGLE tiny trivial detail like you seem to think we are. Instead of "nit-picking" aspects of our arguments to use as ammunition against us, why don't *you try reading our posts more carefully. More often than not, the only reason anyone EVER brings up the similarities, between XIV and XI, is to try and battle the logic that dictates "XI sucks, so we don't want anything from it coming to XIV or it will suck too" -too LATE, XI content was there before you even knew the game existed...[races, bazaars, linkshells/pearls, architecture, music, landscape and terrain, many from the XI crew as you said so yourself, all the chat features, chat log colors (green ls chat, pink /tell chat, teal party chat, orange /sh chat, and so on), and SO much more]. I wish you wouldn't have brought this up again. You ppl really hit a nerve w/ me. And yes, my BELOVED XI is extremely special to me. It and school were the only escapes I had when I was a kid. So, forgive me if I don't want to let it go completely when there's already so much there, practically slapping me in the face, saying "I am XI-2...play me, and love me."

[whoopeeragon]

Omitted for the sake of Renshi's sanity

Ah, I see. In that case, I apologise for leaping on you like that then. I only wanted to express my own viewpoint, so when you lashed out like that, I got a bit agro. I was just trying to add something more constructive. T^T

And just to clear some discrepancies between us; I'll love for some of the better aspects from XI to return. But I'll also want FFXIV to retain it's own individual flavour, so I'm not in full support of a XI-2. Though you are true in saying that, because of the MMO status, FFXIV will definitely draw huge amounts of ideas from FFXI. But not 'virtually identical'

Some stuff that you mentioned is true. FFXIV did start off with quite a bit with XI, but overall, XIV has moved away from XI. I say again, I don't hate XI; I love how it was, and is, relatively unique among the games of MMO's. But I see FFXIV starting on it's unique road to a game which, while resembling FFXI, will establish its own place in FF history, not as a sequel to anything.

Yes, XI and XIV will share more similarities due to their statuses as MMO's, but I still do not find it for XIV to be a XI-2. and while we are different, I still respect your views. I hope you can do the same to mine. I'm sorry if I made you upset. ;_; -cringes at your last paragraph-

[Tsuga]

Anyway, when we all say "identical" and "similar," we aren't talking about every SINGLE tiny trivial detail like you seem to think we are. Instead of "nit-picking" aspects of our arguments to use as ammunition against us, why don't *you try reading our posts more carefully. More often than not, the only reason anyone EVER brings up the similarities, between XIV and XI, is to try and battle the logic that dictates "XI sucks, so we don't want anything from it coming to XIV or it will suck too" -too LATE, XI content was there before you even knew the game existed...[races, bazaars, linkshells/pearls, architecture, music, landscape and terrain, many from the XI crew as you said so yourself, all the chat features, chat log colors (green ls chat, pink /tell chat, teal party chat, orange /sh chat, and so on), and SO much more]. I wish you wouldn't have brought this up again. You ppl really hit a nerve w/ me. And yes, my BELOVED XI is extremely special to me. It and school were the only escapes I had when I was a kid. So, forgive me if I don't want to let it go completely when there's already so much there, practically slapping me in the face, saying "I am XI-2...play me, and love me."

The thing is, like you stated in this paragraph, XI and XIV are mostly only similar in appearance and aesthetic. The main reason behind this (which has been stated in interviews) is that XIV started out as an HD remake of XI, and then the team took it in a new direction. This game was mostly sold to us on the idea that it would be something different, which is why a lot of the people (myself included) would rather the devs NOT lean on dated ideas from XI.

Some things from XI worked, but it is not the only place that SE can borrow ideas from. So many people on these forums only have XI as a reference point because it's the only MMO that they have spent a significant amount of time with, so naturally a lot of the suggestions we get on this forum are "Bring X from XI, because it was better than Y from XIV!". If SE is not going to be original, I would rather them steal from systems that are more modern than from a game that was dated within a couple of years of its release.

Again, I understand that you are saying that SOME things from XI were great, and it can't hurt to look to those ideas for inspiration. There is just usually a better solution than "copy this from XI, it was good".

This still goin' on? I got the popcorn, who wants some?

Naturally. The first post pretty much trolls a good portion of the player-base, so people are going to be responding to that until this thread gets locked.

[Khal_Drogo]

The thing is, like you stated in this paragraph, XI and XIV are mostly only similar in appearance and aesthetic. The main reason behind this (which has been stated in interviews) is that XIV started out as an HD remake of XI, and then the team took it in a new direction.

Some things from XI worked, but it is not the only place that SE can borrow ideas from.... Again, I understand that you are saying that SOME things from XI were great, and it can't hurt to look to those ideas for inspiration. There is just usually a better solution than "copy this from XI, it was good".

Ya, I see where ya'll are coming from now. It's true that I (as well as many others, I'm sure) have, absolutely, no experience with *any MMO other than FFXI. I don't think Halo and CoD count, so I won't bother "pretending" that I do lol So, naturally our suggestions are going to be kind of biased. But we're not so close-minded that we're saying XI was perfect, and "we want every problem that SE is having w/ XIV to be solved using XI. That would probably turn XIV into an awful game xD

I don't know if we chased off all the haters, or if ppl are finally starting to understand what I *really meant by my first post. You pretty much summed up everything that I was trying to say in one paragraph Tsuga lol -I think I'll add that to the original post to try and calm ppl down. Thanks for the input.

[Aeyis]

Ya, I see where ya'll are coming from now. It's true that I (as well as many others, I'm sure) have, absolutely, no experience with *any MMO other than FFXI. I don't think Halo and CoD count, so I won't bother "pretending" that I do lol So, naturally our suggestions are going to be kind of biased. But we're not so close-minded that we're saying XI was perfect, and "we want every problem that SE is having w/ XIV to be solved using XI. That would probably turn XIV into an awful game xD

I don't know if we chased off all the haters, or if ppl are finally starting to understand what I *really meant by my first post. You pretty much summed up everything that I was trying to say in one paragraph Tsuga lol -I think I'll add that to the original post to try and calm ppl down. Thanks for the input.

That's not what your thread title is saying tho.

[Khal_Drogo]

That's not what your thread title is saying tho.

lol nope, the title was meant to get my point across in the most spiteful way possible...Mission accomplished, I guess. I was actually just hoping to pull in abuncha ppl who *agreed w/ me, and have us all just talk back and forth about how right we are, and how wrong and ignorant "they" are lol

And, then, I envisioned a thread with thousands and thousands of views and replies, and SE deciding that, clearly, ppl loved XI, and that they should (at the very least) adopt the former job system from XI, or some sort of XI/XIV hybrid xD

Instead, it turned into a long drawn-out "fight" of denial and insinuation.

[LillithaFenimore]

lol nope, the title was meant to get my point across in the most spiteful way possible...Mission accomplished, I guess. I was actually just hoping to pull in abuncha ppl who *agreed w/ me, and have us all just talk back and forth about how right we are, and how wrong and ignorant "they" are lol Instead, it turned into a long drawn-out "fight" of denial and insinuation.

It's a public forum...what did you expect? A welcoming comittee? /facepalm

[Haji]

lol nope, the title was meant to get my point across in the most spiteful way possible...Mission accomplished, I guess. I was actually just hoping to pull in abuncha ppl who *agreed w/ me, and have us all just talk back and forth about how right we are, and how wrong and ignorant "they" are lol

From Urban Dictionary site:

troll - One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Have you just admited something or is it just me?