Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

[Spiritreaver1217]

Sure, the 2.1-2.55 is techinacally new stuff for those who haven't done it, but it's really not, the expansion is all what's new and shiny. There's the allure of new areas, this time bigger with flying mounts, new enemies and generally things to discover and ton of that stuff has nothing to do with the main story.

I'm sorry but i really did laugh out loud when i read this just now. Re-read what you just wrote and tell me that's not humorous. So if someone else has finished content, said content is no longer new for anyone?

You know you are reaching when your arguments get to the point where yours have my friend.

Now, asking completely straight-faced:

1) What are these hypothetical lvl 1 players going to do in Ishgard when they get there? I mean, the way this game is, most everything is locked behind some kind of quest(this is something many of you supporting the silly OP are forgetting). If design of the game stays the same on this front, pretty much all the lvl 1 player will be able to do is sight-see until they inevitably run into the next quest-locked bit of content. I mean all quests have a lvl requirement currently and i doubt even the 'flavor' quests in 3.x are gonna be able to be flagged by any character under 50.

2) How are they going to get there? Coerthas is a goodly ways away from all three of the starting cities. That is an awfully long way to hoof it as without having done the MQ. There will be no use of a chocobo. They won't be able to teleport there because that functionality is picked up and added onto as the player normally completes various bits of the MQ. And even though it looks like airships are finally getting some love in 3.x, at present there is no airship service outside of the main three cities(and you need a license for even this-which is earned through the MQ...).

3) Most importantly, why would a lvl 1 even want/need to go to Ishgard in the first place. I'll tell you as someone who has been lvl 1 in my fair share of MMOs, that 'go out and see all the things!!!' feeling gets quickly stripped away after the first 30 or so deaths and is quickly replaced with 'i need to lvl my ass up asap!!!". And oddly enough, leveling up asap is facilitated by...

Also isn't this thread neat? "Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ" was the initial request in the OP. Somewhere along the way it became all about lvl 1 characters; i wonder which group will have its right to enter Ishgard sans MQ up to 3.0-readiness championed next!

[berries]

Now, asking completely straight-faced:

1) What are these hypothetical lvl 1 players going to do in Ishgard when they get there?

Where on earth are you getting this?! I thought I read trough almost the whole thread (it is rather long so I skimmed parts of it) and I didn't see anyone asking to come into expansion areas as level 1. If I'm wrong, please correct me and point me to the posts.

And for content being new... really now... it's not new if it's year old(just as an example)... for those who haven't done it is new for them... but it is not new content as a whole regarging the game. I guess I worded it badly, sorry my mistake.

[Spiritreaver1217]

1)Where on earth are you getting this?! I thought I read trough almost the whole thread (it is rather long so I skimmed parts of it) and I didn't see anyone asking to come into expansion areas as level 1. If I'm wrong, please correct me and point me to the posts.

2)And for content being new... really now... it's not new if it's year old(just as an example)... for those who haven't done it is new for them... but it is not new content as a whole regarging the game. I guess I worded it badly, sorry my mistake.

@1-Sorry, simply taking all this 'let's skip the MQ' business to its ultimate iteration. I mean, if you skip the MQ, might as well be talking about a lvl 1 character. Also many of the ppl that have rotated in and out in support of the OP have repeatedly referred to brand new players being locked out of Ishgard-again in my mind that means ppl who haven't done the main quest.

Would you rather i stick to saying 'new players' ?

@2-No need for apologies. As i said i actually found it humorous, which is pretty awesome imo.

Still didn't answer the questions though.

[berries]

@1
@2
Still didn't answer the questions though.

This 1000 character limit is so infuriating! If anyone knows better way to deal with it than posting and editing aftwewards, please let me know!

Sticking with new players would seem to make more sense. When the expansion hits, new players can/should get to 50 fairly quick, and wouldn't you think they're still new players even after few weeks?

And yes sorry I didn't answer the questions, itwas because I questioned the level 1 thing which made no sense to me... but to put it short... what does it really matter if level 1 players somehow could go to new areas? They couldn't do much but at least it would be something they could choose to do... if for whatever reason they wanted to... but eventually they would need to get back to old areas anyway to level up and possibly do the story quests too.

[Spiritreaver1217]

This 1000 character limit is so infuriating! If anyone knows better way to deal with it than posting and editing aftwewards, please let me know!

Sticking with new players would seem to make more sense. When the expansion hits, new players can/should get to 50 fairly quick, and wouldn't you think they're still new players even after few weeks?

And yes sorry I didn't answer the questions, itwas because I questioned the level 1 thing which made no sense to me... but to put it short... what does it really matter if level 1 players somehow could go to new areas? They couldn't do much but at least it would be something they could choose to do... if for whatever reason they wanted to... but eventually they would need to get back to old areas anyway to level up and possibly do the story quests too.

Which is most likely the same reasoning the SE devs where using when they decided to keep access to the new jobs and the vast majority of the expansion behind the need of MQ completion-among other things(many of which we have very little idea about).

It is all well and good to have choices, but sometimes 'just because' is not a good enough reason to be given a choice or option that is essentially pointless. I mean you say it yourself, new players going to Ishgard before they finished the MQ would end up simply going back and finishing it up to 3.x anyways. I think SE saying to just do the MQ first is a good call for the design route they have decided to take in handling expansion content.

Now if you want to call out SE for developing HW for high level play(lvls 51-60) instead of making it more middle of the road, that would be a valid issue and one that they have struggled with even in FFXI(the lack of mid-level content and a 'top heavy' playerbase). But i don't think i have seen where anyone has given much thought to this in this thread. Its been all, 'I am caught up on the MQ, but what about the new players(cough-my mules), they are gonna have a hard time getting to Ishgard >.>'

[Duuude007]

What are these hypothetical lvl 1 players going to do in Ishgard when they get there? I mean, the way this game is, most everything is locked behind some kind of quest(this is something many of you supporting the silly OP are forgetting). If design of the game stays the same on this front, pretty much all the lvl 1 player will be able to do is sight-see until they inevitably run into the next quest-locked bit of content. I mean all quests have a lvl requirement currently and i doubt even the 'flavor' quests in 3.x are gonna be able to be flagged by any character under 50.

At this point, we don't have to deal with this. For which I am grateful.

That said, if SE decides to someday throw the gates open for content-free map exploration of any level 50 player (50 ilevels undergeared to survive in said areas), I would still expect that npcs within and beyond are unwilling to give players the time of day, let alone access to their technology (aka the jobs you must earn, personal airships, quests etc). As in, they don't want to do content to get in, fine, don't expect to get content inside, either.

But why would they. So much of the past five years has been quests and NPCS effectively giving players the finger to even suggest entry.

BRAINSTORM! Let's undermine our business model of providing effective RPG storytelling for thirteen sequels, and tell the players "forget all that junk, here's your keys to the city"!

Yeah, I don't see that happening.

In the end all these arguments are moot. Those whining aren't speaking for themselves (unless they have bots to catch up), the game mechanics are already established (buy or don't buy, your choice to accept the terms or not) and it is in reality entirely fair if you have to go from poin A to B to get access to C, just like the rest of us.

For someone to say that this is 'poor design' or 'not what the silent majority wants' or 'unfair' is incredibly naive, or coming from someone who would rather play in a sandbox.

To each his own, but if you don't like it, you know where the door is. Gating isn't and by all means shouldn't go away.

[berries]

For someone to say that this is 'poor design' or 'not what the silent majority wants' or 'unfair' is incredibly naive, or coming from someone who would rather play in a sandbox.

Why is expressing opinions about design choices naive? Developers aren't all knowing who make only right choices. Who knows maybe this choice benefits the game in the long run, but all I can do to is express my concerns and issues with it.

[Duuude007]

Why is expressing opinions about design choices naive? Developers aren't all knowing who make only right choices. Who knows maybe this choice benefits the game in the long run, but all I can do to is express my concerns and issues with it.

Okay, I'll bite.

What MMORPGS have you designed to have superior opinions to that of SE's international staffing?

SE has done two so far. Both largely successful.

They even made mistakes along the way, and have since overcome them, becoming stronger than ever.

But sure, if you make opinions, and have logic and evidence to back them up, sure, we and the mods/devs could consider it.

Likely say "no, that's not going to work", but it certainly will be 'considered'.

And if that is all you wanted to do, then your job is done.

to put it short... what does it really matter if level 1 players somehow could go to new areas? They couldn't do much but at least it would be something they could choose to do... if for whatever reason they wanted to... but eventually they would need to get back to old areas anyway to level up and possibly do the story quests too.

Because SE was built upon an industry where the story is important to the player and needs to be upheld as a beacon of quality in their flagship IP, "Final Fantasy". Establishing story blocking the road and thoroughly explaining how you got past that is necessary, which the MSQ does properly. The alternative is via changing the conditions of the lore retroactively. This is called retcon (retroactive continuity), and is sorely frowned upon in the industry, and would taint the Final Fantasy brand.

[berries]

Okay, I'll bite.
What MMORPGS have you designed to have superior opinions to that of SE's international staffing?
SE has done two so far. Both largely successful.
They even made mistakes along the way, and have since overcome them, becoming stronger than ever.
But sure, if you make opinions, and have logic and evidence to back them up, sure, we and the mods/devs could consider it.
Likely say "no, that's not going to work", but it certainly will be 'considered'.
And if that is all you wanted to do, then your job is done.

Quick edit here: I replied to something else I see now, I was too distracted and read your reply wrong and thought you aksed my design choices or something

Well for one thing I'd like to point out again which I said earlier. Rift made 1-2 player versions of the (some?) raids so they could be experienced by those who really can't do that otherwise, I think that is a fantastic idea. I've always been little disgruntled with story being behind hard mode content and I think something similar would work here too, have that actual story mode for those who want nothing more than that and leave the more difficult part to those who want to grind for the equipment. And you know.. I don't want to be "that" person and I'm sure you expected this comment, but... 1.0 wasn't all that successful with it's design choices

In any case, this is a fantastic game in overall... just those couple complaints from me. But in return I would toss back that thinking of develepoers being all knowing who can do know wrong, would seem rather naive, don't you think? Haven't been there plenty of mishaps already, like with tomes and seals and the early fate grinds which have been later changed? I'm sure someone knows those better than me and feel free to correct me on those, I only read about those and not experienced first hand.

[Malevicton]

Well for one thing I'd like to point out again which I said earlier. Rift made 1-2 player versions of the (some?) raids so they could be experienced by those who really can't do that otherwise, I think that is a fantastic idea. I've always been little disgruntled with story being behind hard mode content and I think something similar would work here too, have that actual story mode for those who want nothing more than that and leave the more difficult part to those who want to grind for the equipment. And you know.. I don't want to be "that" person and I'm sure you expected this comment, but... 1.0 wasn't all that successful with it's design choices

Aren't they adding pretty much those exact things?