New glamour dress on a male (art)

[Lewtskie]

Are you a paid troll or just extremely ignorant because i really can't tell

You know, she has gone to strenuous lengths here in detailing how all this works behind the scenes and even still supports the idea and has encouraged people to go to the next level and show how much people want this to happen. And here you are being snarky and toxic towards her like you're just the coolest thing. Seriously, what is your malfunction?

I think Kyuven is right in that those who really do want this should start going beyond this thread and really show some fervor.

[Terrini]

The only next step I can think of is getting Zomi to put my Male Hyur Midlander in the outfit too :P His favorite color is Cerulean Blue and I thing that he'd look pretty good in it!

[Fenral]

To kill any further fallacious arguments about "what they will/won't do" and "what we can't have," here is the official response we got to the last thread:

Greetings,



Currently there are many pieces of male equipment that can be altered to be worn by the female characters, but certain equipment specific to females cannot be adjusted for males due to the differences in the character models.

However, there is female-specific gear (such as the head and hand equipment) that can be modified to fit with male character models, so we'll consider those requests based on the feedback we've been receiving. Also, we plan on creating more exciting male-specific equipment in the future to help the balance of gender-specific gear.

And then this set happens.

Putting aside that the "differences in the character models" line is little more than a weak excuse (female Miqo'te lost their asses in order to keep the male and female models as topologically similar as possible, for the purpose of sharing gear), they did announce that males would be getting more exclusive gear, and that they would be working to balance the amount gender-specific gear.

And then this set happens.

[Ymal]

I think Kyuven is right in that those who really do want this should start going beyond this thread and really show some fervor.

And how do you do that exactly? Cause as they proposed no I'm not a man so no I can't cosplay my character wearing OP's version. I also don't know how to draw so I can't spam the forums with images of male wearing female gear from this game. I also do not own enough money to go to Japan or the US and riot SE's company directly. Except for asking again and again I really don't see what else we can do, but be free to give examples.

[synesthetic]

That's not enough to satisfy me. "It just upsets people" is too weak of an argument. It ignores the core base on why it happens. And if I don't know why, how can I be expected to accept it?

The only reason I keep posting in this thread is because I want to know why. Why does deviating from that standard cause distress?

I'm going off of the impression that the specific question is "why does seeing a man in women's clothing [or specifically a dress] upset anyone?"

I feel it has to do with human nature and individual experiences.

In front, there are aesthetic senses at work. Some people like what they see in the first post, some people don't. There's nothing inherently right or wrong with liking or not liking it.

And then you introduce the opinions with the like/dislike and throw in politics, and it gets ugly because a lot of people don't take disagreement too well, and a lot of people don't present their disagreement in a good way either. A lot of this ugliness going on comes from a lack of respect for other opinions and people, and some of it's going as far as rejection of them (which is bigotry).
And that's almost all of the distress I recall seeing from this thread--distress over seeing someone disagrees or isn't making the same argument, not so much any upset at the idea that a man would want to wear a dress.

Outside of this thread, there's social conformity and class, personal ethics, and psychology involved. With all of the complex and subtle associations of concepts that individuals form in their brains, there's no way there's a clean answer to why various people would get upset at seeing a man in a dress.

For some, seeing someone break their sense of the norm could be disturbing their sense of everyday security, the way that change attracts attention--we get a little alert/anxious when we see something different or abnormal, because it's unfamiliar and you may not know how to handle it, or what it heralds.
For some, seeing someone not conforming could be going against their sense of ethics. What they know and accept is "right", and going against it is "wrong".

For some, it could be similar to the uncanny valley where there's discomfort from there being a difference in expectation and what is seen. The concept applies a lot in robotics and 3D-animation, where pushing for more realism is usually more appealing and received well, until it reaches a point where there's a dip in acceptance because there's a shift in perception on what you're looking at, and your mind's expectations change.

a robot stuck inside the uncanny valley is no longer being judged by the standards of a robot doing a passable job at pretending to be human, but is instead being judged by the standards of a human doing a terrible job at acting like a normal person.

The parallel here would be that some people are no longer seeing a guy trying to dress like a girl, but are instead seeing a girl that no longer fits what they know girls to look like.
It doesn't matter if you consciously acknowledge that you're looking at a robot or a guy, it's just the brain not liking the mismatched combination of perceptual cues its getting, thereby causing discomfort.

And it is a valley. After that dip, there's general acceptance again, like people can enjoy what they see in the CG movies that have been released these past few years (unlike Tin Toy from decades ago). Likewise, guys that can be completely mistaken for girls (or vice versa) have a lot of appeal.

[lololink]

To me it's not a crossdressing outfit that I ask for, but the same outfit modified for male bodies. Which can be done easily for that dancer gear ( and for the bunny outfit ) by simply modifying the chest pieces.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Can you explain to me the differences between the Yukatas? Because the one on men PCs looks like it was lazily put on, while the one on girl's looks like it's just being worn properly not a good example of "Men's clothes" imo. You're trying to give examples of "Female clothing" by only showing sets that the girl PCs can wear, you've yet to give a definition of what "Female clothing" even means. Does it mean long and flowing with poofy aspects to it? Because lots of robes and skirts are like that too. Does that mean tight and form fitting? Because the Flame's loincloth and subligar are like that as well. The OP made a variant of the outfit for male PCs and I still don't see how it looks like "Female clothing". I mean, this is a game where you can wear this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0.png~original This is on a male PC, note the Midriff but covered chest (Much like the bunny set), the shoes that are basically heels (Well, minus the heel part, but you get what I mean), and the incredibly tight pants. If that's not feminine, then I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Snip

Except SE can and should do it. Japan isn't a monolith and at the end of the day I'm sure plenty of stockholders just want to see the money continue being pumped out. FFXIV is a cash cow right now and I doubt making some of the current girl's only sets available for men is going to kill that.

Well.. What about One Piece and the Okama? While they're kind of a joke they're also very important characters and the protagonist of the series is great friends with them. Again Japan isn't a monolith, and it's not like SE couldn't just "Lol here's the dress FOR THE LULZ THOUGH don't wear it seriously EVER! wink wink nudge nudge."

Like, people send each other death threats all the time though, hell celebrities get them so frequently Stateside it's almost hilarious if they weren't things like "I'm going to cut your throat open". Look at the model Kayo Satoh, who maintained being a very popular model and street fighter player even after coming out to the main public that she was transgender. Or this Japanese comedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaki_Sumitani to which I'm pretty sure what he did, which made him even more popular, was hardly "Maintaining his image". SE being the massive company that it is is able to do this sort of stuff though, they can actually take risks because currently FFXIV is making some big bucks and they owe it to the fans.

Snip

What I really don't get is, if they wanted to not worry about modeling from the girl model to the boy model, why not just start every set with a theme on the men then model it for the girls next?

[No2631]

SE rep quote

I really think this is a big thing that SE should own up to. I get that every company must deceive its customers at some point, but this is just really low. And I totally understand that giving players more options is great, like giving female characters access to male clothing. Those arabian open vests do reveal some chest, so a female version would need to have adjustments... which I understand is OK to do. Why can the same effort not be applied to male characters? Why does Square-Enix favour female characters? Is it because Yoshida's Lala is female?

From Zhexos's response, it's obvious that Square isn't bothered by cultural nonsense and is just concerned with (or pretends to be concerned with) technical limitations. But if female clothing to male clothing presents problems due to differences in character models, why does going from male to female not present those very same problems? I don't get it.

[Fantasy9]

After 14 pages I begin to wonder why this no-gender phenomena is so popular all of a sudden? I bring this up because the way gear is in this game is the same way gear is in almost every game before it and it will not be the last. So what if you can't wear a dress as a male, it is not the end of the world. I swear, this latest generation of players need to grow up and learn that the reality of the world is that just because something becomes a new fad doesn't mean that you should force your new-age opinions on everyone else. I also despise these kids getting all angry that something is not bending to their opinions.

[Evantide]

To the people complaining about paying for a game, and they should be able to wear whatever they want...ff14 is not a sandbox mmorpg, so you pay for what the devs design for you. In addtion to that: I am quite sure that nowhere in the terms of service does it say that player's are entitled to such requests.