Do the Primals Know Each Other?

[IveraIvalice]

They have each other added on Facebook. They like each other's posts sometimes but they don't talk like they used to.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I'm pretty sure all the primals went to high school together. Extrapolate your high school castes at your leisure.

Guess that makes Rahmu the Grumpy, Semi-Retired principal/headmaster then. Lol

Garuda was probably a cheerleader, and Titan and Ifrit were on the football team.

Guess Levi was a swim coach and bismark and Vashra were like skater punks or something. And they all went to Alexander High School together. Lol

[lololink]

Bahamut must have been a bully then, he ended up in jail.

[finiteHP]

Are there any other scenes or is it just this? I haven't touched my legacy character since the relaunch, but there's a number of dialogue changes that might just tempt me...

Off the top of my head the scenes that have differences are the opening (legacy players appearing where Derplander and party did in the movie and then walking into town as opposed to coming via carriage/boat), when you first meet Minfilia, taking Cid's airship to fight Garuda (Cid comes to remember taking you to fight Nael), and after the praetorium (the amnesia is lifted for everyone).

[Kaiser-Ace]

Off the top of my head the scenes that have differences are the opening (legacy players appearing where Derplander and party did in the movie and then walking into town as opposed to coming via carriage/boat), when you first meet Minfilia, taking Cid's airship to fight Garuda (Cid comes to remember taking you to fight Nael), and after the praetorium (the amnesia is lifted for everyone).

I don't recall any of this and I do have legacy status. Could it be because I never made it to the path of the twelve story arc?

[Rocl]

I don't recall any of this and I do have legacy status. Could it be because I never made it to the path of the twelve story arc?

You likely had to complete United We Stand in 1.0 in order to get those changes

[Enkidoh]

You likely had to complete United We Stand in 1.0 in order to get those changes

That's correct, you had to have cleared the Lunar Transmitter fight in order to the get the Legacy story in ARR. SE confirmed this in a post not long after launch as there was a lot of confusion about what you had to do exactly to get the Legacy storyline (unfortunately, SE never mentioned this back when it was relevant, they just stated '1.0 players would get a special storyline').

Hence a lot of players with 'Legacy Campaign' status (such as me) did not get the Legacy storyline. Although considering the 'new character' story seems to be the 'canon' story and the 'legacy' story shoehorned into the narrative roughly, I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing. But that's another barrel of moogles...

Anyway, back on topic!

I keep forgetting to mention this in primal discussions involving Shiva, but better late than never.

There's a big discrepancy in how she's referred to. Ysayle and Minfilia specifically mention the soul of Saint Shiva being invited to possess a host body, but the Ascians (in the previous patch, 2.3) specifically say that Eorzea is fertile ground for divine seeds and that, by nurturing the Gifted, given the right tools, man will fashion a new god. It begs to be read as, "By next patch, we'll have spurned the existence of a new primal using an Echo user and raw zealotry." and then suddenly Shiva appears.

Which one is the false hint? Either?

I can't get over the suspicion that Ysale offered her body to "the soul of Shiva," but what showed up was mostly just... aether and prayer...

And yet Ramuh had a "soul orb."

PAH.

Although Iceheart's 'Shiva suit' might have come about by conventional summoning means (Ascians appear to beastman downtrodden soul and instruct them how to summon), an interesting comment Estinien of all people made immediately after the player defeats Vishap on the Steps of Faith has hinted at maybe Iceheart's summoning of Shiva to be something completely different to what we're used to - that it was granted to her not by the Ascians, but by Nidhogg:

Estinien: "One of Nidhogg's greatest champions... slain. The Horde will soon not recover from this blow."
Estinien: "But what of you, Nidhogg? Why did you not join your minions and make of this battle a slaughter? Have you grown so fond of the stench of your lair?"
Estinien: "Mayhap you prefer to have your allies to fight your battles for you... You have a girl to do your bidding now, do you not? No matter, I shall slay Iceheart, and all the rest."

Of course this doesn't prove conclusively at a possible direct Dravanian connection to Shiva's summoning, but Estinien stated she is Nidhogg's thrall so it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

As for the Ascian comments about Eorzea being "fertile ground for divine seeds to bloom", Lahabrea mentions the same thing to Elidibus in the stinger after completing the 2.55 story, which I took to mean a hint towards the new Primals coming in Heavensward (ala, Bismark, Ravana and Alexander). Whether Shiva was a part of this group (and for that matter, my namesake ) is anyone's guess though - I'm liable to believe she was not, due to her story already existing before this scene (remember the old, and now most likely retconned and irrelevant, information from 1.0 that stated that Shiva was meant to be the Primal of a 'unknown beast tribe from the north', who were stated as being 'very large and having icy dispositions?').

But as they say, I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Jonnycbad]

Wonder why Garuda and Ifrit's themes don't have phase transitions post-Ultimate. When i first heard Titan's drums and guitar change up during Earthen Fury, I was like "Shi* is about to go down!!" But for some reason Ifri and Garuda's themes neither have lyrics nor a change in rhythm post ultimate. Also i kinda wish the Pony's themes started their primal's themes from the begining. Like Shiva's for example, it doesn't play the orchestrated part when you ride her pony, it just starts from the indi pop-punk part.


Also the Ascians are much like the Lucavi from FFT, appearing before desparate souls and bestowing upon them a great but ruinous power. They are trying to revive their god. Remember how the Lucavi in FFT were trying to revive Ultima? Then you fight Hashmal, the Lucavi of Leo at the end, he says they needed a large amount of bloodshed to summon Ultima, then he kills himself becuse they were conveniently just shy of a bit more blood to fully summon her. I think they're repeating that theme here. The Ascians help various factions to summon Primals to incite death and bloodshed through war which likely grants power to Zodiark.

12 Crystal Braves, 12 Zodiac Signs, "The Twelve", "Twelve Ascians", (after this exp there will be 12 Soul Stones, which look similar to the Zodiac Stones in FFT). Then there's Zodiark/Ophiucus which was the 13th sign, perhaps the player will be the 13th "Brave/Ascian" or some other shocking revelation.

[Anonymoose]

<...> hinted at maybe Iceheart's summoning of Shiva to be something completely different to what we're used to - that it was granted to her not by the Ascians, but by Nidhogg <...>

Huh, I never really thought about it. I mean, between the whole Ascian, "nurture the gifted, make a primal" meeting and Urianger accusing them directly, I just took it for granted that it led to Shiva due to Nabriales monitoring the whole thing and then taking credit for it a patch later. At least, I assumed he took credit for it. How do you read the phrase, ...?

I suffered the overweening presence of Lahabrea that men might host the power of gods, only for you to undo my hard work.

I had just read Estinien as saying that Iceheart was doing the dirty work of being a thorn in Ishgard's side; as in she organized the heretics, she brought down the outer barriers, she led the attempted recovery of the Eye, etc. I thought he was calling Nidhogg a coward that as soon as he had others willing to head the assault, he stopped risking coming himself. Again, though, I've never thought about any of this in-depth because I'd taken the obviousness (to me) for granted. Wouldn't be the first time I'd assumed wrong and not noticed, if indeed that is the case.

Wonder why Garuda and Ifrit's themes don't have phase transitions post-Ultimate.

Ifrit's theme was done by Nobuo Uematsu, and I suspect they left it that way out of respect for his work. Soken did make Garuda's theme, but Soken's said in the past that Titan's theme was the first time they really just said, hey, do whatever you want, so it's possible that he had specific instructions. If Ifrit and Garuda's themes were remade today, there's no telling what they'd sound like.

Also the Ascians are much like the Lucavi from FFT

If I could pin a gold star on you, I would. I've long suspected that those who lingered on XII instead of moving on to the XII-inspired retcons of PSX Tactics have spent too much time digging in the wrong garden. Without evidence, though, who am I to make such a claim? Usually I just vented to Havik about it, lol.

[Enkidoh]

Huh, I never really thought about it. I mean, between the whole Ascian, "nurture the gifted, make a primal" meeting and Urianger accusing them directly, I just took it for granted that it led to Shiva due to Nabriales monitoring the whole thing and then taking credit for it a patch later. At least, I assumed he took credit for it. How do you read the phrase, ...?

I had just read Estinien as saying that Iceheart was doing the dirty work of being a thorn in Ishgard's side; as in she organized the heretics, she brought down the outer barriers, she led the attempted recovery of the Eye, etc. I thought he was calling Nidhogg a coward that as soon as he had others willing to head the assault, he stopped risking coming himself. Again, though, I've never thought about any of this in-depth because I'd taken the obviousness (to me) for granted. Wouldn't be the first time I'd assumed wrong and not noticed, if indeed that is the case.

I admit I started having doubts myself about that very idea no sooner had I actually posted that. I guess it just struck me as odd that Estinien would specifically mention Iceheart as being a minion of Nidhogg when, as an Echo user, shouldn't she be actually immune to such influence? I know she's the leader of the Heretics, but, aren't the heretics meant to be effectively tempered by the dragons (like a Primal)? Who is manipulating whom here?

I guess maybe I'm just looking for things that aren't actually there, but it sounded an interesting idea no one had considered anyway.

Wonder why Garuda and Ifrit's themes don't have phase transitions post-Ultimate. When i first heard Titan's drums and guitar change up during Earthen Fury, I was like "Shi* is about to go down!!" But for some reason Ifri and Garuda's themes neither have lyrics nor a change in rhythm post ultimate. Also i kinda wish the Pony's themes started their primal's themes from the begining. Like Shiva's for example, it doesn't play the orchestrated part when you ride her pony, it just starts from the indi pop-punk part.

Ifrit's theme was done by Nobuo Uematsu, and I suspect they left it that way out of respect for his work. Soken did make Garuda's theme, but Soken's said in the past that Titan's theme was the first time they really just said, hey, do whatever you want, so it's possible that he had specific instructions. If Ifrit and Garuda's themes were remade today, there's no telling what they'd sound like.

I'm pretty sure Primal Judgement had originally been planned to be a default theme for all Primal battles back when 1.0 was still in development, even though the Ifrit battle in 1.0 wasn't added until after Tanaka was replaced by Yoshi-P as producer and the rest of the development team was reshuffled, the theme had already been given a public teaser with it's orchestral arrangement being performed at the Distant Worlds concert before the actual battle was made available in the game - that and it's very title (Primal Judgement) all but screams this was meant to be a default theme used for all Primal battles. Also Ifrit and Garuda's fights were originally 1.0 content and by that stage of 1.0's lifespan it had basically become a test bed for ideas planned for ARR, so it's likely as Soken had just stepped up to replace Uematsu as FFXIV's composer and sound director, he decided to 'play it safe' with Garuda's theme Fallen Angel with the one track playing over the entirety of the battle.

It should be noted that the third and final 1.0 Primal battle (Good King Moggle Mog the XIIth) actually begun the 'different themes for different stages of a battle' tradition, starting with the purely instrumental Seven Jesters before segueing into the eponymous vocal theme. Incidentally, Titan and Leviathan's Primal fights were originally planned for 1.0 but were never actually implemented, due to the terrible 2011 Japanese earthquake and tsunami - SE felt it would have been in very poor taste to feature Primals which were embodiments of those forces of nature that caused that terrible disaster. But I digress...

Damnit, we really need a specific Music and Sound forum added. Please SE!

Also the Ascians are much like the Lucavi from FFT, appearing before desparate souls and bestowing upon them a great but ruinous power. They are trying to revive their god. Remember how the Lucavi in FFT were trying to revive Ultima? Then you fight Hashmal, the Lucavi of Leo at the end, he says they needed a large amount of bloodshed to summon Ultima, then he kills himself becuse they were conveniently just shy of a bit more blood to fully summon her. I think they're repeating that theme here. The Ascians help various factions to summon Primals to incite death and bloodshed through war which likely grants power to Zodiark.

12 Crystal Braves, 12 Zodiac Signs, "The Twelve", "Twelve Ascians", (after this exp there will be 12 Soul Stones, which look similar to the Zodiac Stones in FFT). Then there's Zodiark/Ophiucus which was the 13th sign, perhaps the player will be the 13th "Brave/Ascian" or some other shocking revelation.

If I could pin a gold star on you, I would. I've long suspected that those who lingered on XII instead of moving on to the XII-inspired retcons of PSX Tactics have spent too much time digging in the wrong garden. Without evidence, though, who am I to make such a claim? Usually I just vented to Havik about it, lol.

Hah, I admit I never even picked up on that similarity - but now that you mention it, the Ascians are more like FFT's Crystal Braves/Lucavi. Although given the fact the development team has already shot down direct connections with the Ivalice games and instead have stated that they're simply connected in name only, take of that what you will.