I'm not even going to bother tanking 24x raids in 3.0

[Adrasteia]

I mean, it's certainly not required to do top DPS unless you're gunning for first clears, but there's no reason not to do it. One of the big reasons that I play video games is for the purposes of mastery: if there's something I can do as a tank/DPS/healer in addition to the very basics of my role, it's fun to learn how to do that and gradually become better at that class in the process. I'm glad that the mechanics as such encourage tanks and healers to contribute meaningfully to DPS through good play, since it helps to raise the skill ceiling in a way that doesn't also make the roles require an outrageous amount of skill to play when you're simply nailing down the basics.

[TruebladeNuke]

If, however, your definition of a "good" tank is just someone who doesn't lose aggro and doesn't die, then yeah, enhancing your DPS would fall under the "advanced" category. My standards may just be a bit high.

You guessed right. That's my definition of a good tank. Going the extra mile with DPS output is something I consider more on the advanced side of things. Of which I'm not against actually. It's just more risky that way.

I already knew DPS output contributes to aggro control though. My DRG can tell you stories about ripping some adds off the tank on aggro generated~
Tis why I keep one Slayer ring accessory on my MT gear, unless I'm OTing with no tank swap mechanics involved, in which I'll go full Slayer accessories instead.

[Seku]

Since when did massive DPS output become a requirement to even be considered a good tank? Makes me glad I don't pay attention to forums much.
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It's not a requirement. But claiming that you need your tanking stance up 24/7 while MTing is really absurd and hinders the party in the fact that you're slowing down the run.

Don't try it however if you're a new tank, can't keep hate normally, not familiar with dungeon, your healer isn't up to date on gear, your healer isn't familiar with the dungeon, or healer doesn't know how to heal.

If you're new to this and want to try it. Make sure to have at least a few str accessories and you're near ilevel cap for the dungeon. Start on standard dungeon bosses and learning to manage your defensive CD's.

[TruebladeNuke]

If you're new to this and want to try it. Make sure to have at least a few str accessories and you're near ilevel cap for the dungeon. Start on standard dungeon bosses and learning to manage your defensive CD's.

Not new actually. I find myself Tanking dungeons more than playing as any other role, including since the earlier times of me playing this game. (Though I won't say my timing on defense management is entirely perfect either. I'm human and make mistakes too, lol) I'm more just the type of player who'd rather be safe than sorry, especially considering most of my runs are in random DF groups that I have no clue if they're even good or not. (Though a bit of progress into the dungeon will sometimes tell me if the healer could handle me going DPS stance on them)

I'd probably be more open to going DPS mode as a Tank if I more often worked in groups of people I trusted would get my back on healing, even if I went full Slayer accessory and DPS stance on them. Depending on the boss while I'm MT, I may switch to Sword Oath or turn off Defiance if I feel like I'm not getting hit hard enough that I need the defense stance up.

And... this is just my opinion, but I don't consider lower DPS output on a Tank to be THAT much of a problem to the party. (Unless they start having trouble holding hate, THEN it's a problem) Yes, my standards aren't that high, lol. I don't mind spending an extra minute or two in a dungeon... most of the time. Though DPS that don't keep their DPS up is a different matter to me. I once saw a DRG who only used Full Thrust over and over and over and over- *Bricked*

[Donjo]

It's not a requirement. But claiming that you need your tanking stance up 24/7 while MTing is really absurd and hinders the party in the fact that you're slowing down the run.

Don't try it however if you're a new tank, can't keep hate normally, not familiar with dungeon, your healer isn't up to date on gear, your healer isn't familiar with the dungeon, or healer doesn't know how to heal.

If you're new to this and want to try it. Make sure to have at least a few str accessories and you're near ilevel cap for the dungeon. Start on standard dungeon bosses and learning to manage your defensive CD's.

So, I've seen this and the previous post of mine that you butchered. It is clear that you don't quite understand exactly what I'm saying. I'll try to summarize it better for you.

First, I think I found a good name for Tanking roles who aren't being Tanks. Barbarians. A complete mad focus on hitting the enemy really hard that just happens to hold their attention because of just being that dangerous. Second, the points.

* A Tank should keep their Tank Stance up when MTing. A Barbarian may choose not to.
* It is not necessarily wrong to be a Barbarian if doing so is not actively causing wipes.
* I never said that Barbarians suck at the game. I just said that I don't wish to be one. I personally despise the idea of Barbarians and what I believe are flaws in the game's systems that allow them to exist, but that has nothing to do with skill at the game.

If you feel insulted because I'm saying that you're a Barbarian and not a Tank, then I apologize. I do not mean it as an insult. It is merely a new Title.

[DGladius]

Whether I play as tank or dps I always optimize what I can do to contribute to the party as much as possible. From gearing myself appropriately to practicing and mastering my jobs. If I can find ways to deal more damage while being able to tank things, I'm going to try and maximize that. This allows me to perform my jobs at the highest level it possibly can when I join any party. I want to put in as much work as I can to get things done being the most efficient and effective, cause I find not doing so to be lazy which is an attitude I don't want to bring when I join a group. Killing things faster will make clears faster.

[Instrumentality]

If you feel insulted because I'm saying that you're a Barbarian and not a Tank, then I apologize. I do not mean it as an insult. It is merely a new Title.

I am a tank whether or not I have sword oath, shield oath, or no oath on. Sorry if that upsets you.

If I can sword oath and survive on the boss with appropriate cooldown usage, increase raid dps and clear speed by doing so, and cause no undue strain on any particular other person by being in a non-tank stance then not being out of tank stance is not optimal tanking.

Also you don't get to make up new things to call people just because you don't like how people are concerned with efficiency over your sense of propriety.

[Seku]

Snip

New as in you're also not use to gauging your parties abilities and the equipment they have on vs the dungeon you're in aka high raid awareness

@ Donjo
No I understand exactly what you're saying. You think a "tank" is someone that has to "turtle" up 24/7, despite there being no need to.

I've come up with a good name for your type too. Narrow minded.
*A narrow minded person will take everything to the extreme despite giving diminishing returns.
*A narrow minded person will make blind and ignorant claims.
*A narrow minded person may not particularly suck, but they will never be at the top of their game and mediocre due to their own ability to limit themselves based on beliefs that have no ground work to prove any of their beliefs

If you feel insulted because I'm saying you're narrowed minded and not a tank, then I apologize. I do not mean it as an insult. It's just what you are.

[Shurrikhan]

/examine other tanks' gear. If ~ = or > my gear's (offensive value), call "not tanking", and do as little enmity as possible. If beneath mine, pull with everything, and don't let them get even 2/3s. It's worked for me as long as I can remember. I get more annoyed when playing Monk, largely because of the lost positional dps when the tanks don't do this.

Edit: @Donjo - I get your point, and it is a fitting enough description, but it's also a lot like calling every healer who knows how to stance dance or (more aptly) make the most out of his regen or faerie a "dualist" instead.

[TruebladeNuke]

New as in you're also not use to gauging your parties abilities and the equipment they have on vs the dungeon you're in aka high raid awareness.

Oh. Well, still not new then. I have a fair amount of experience in that too. One look at the HP bars can often give you a rough estimate of how powerful they are until you check their gear. I wouldn't consider myself a master of it, but I have experience in that department too.