I sure hope HW is not going to be more armor grind treadmill!

[Instrumentality]

To some extend sure, but if you compare the typical theme park MMO´s to older stuff like Everquest, FF11, SWG or Daoc you can see a big difference.

The big difference here being that FFXIV is actually now a good game and those games you listed are not and were not. I played EQ for seven actual years. It was terrible and the only reason I kept logging in after the release of WoW was because I had friends who played that I'd basically grown up with.

And the communities in EQ and games like it were extremely awful. Like make everyone in this game look like saints awful. I remember how it was on all the PVP servers where everyone that wasn't your guild/race was the enemy and how you could never, ever let your guard down. XI had no pvp so maybe it was different, but I've heard nothing but how it was just like EQ except Final Fantasy (and therefore terrible).

tl;dr If the only reason you log in to play a game is because of the people you play with then you should find a different game to play. It took me ages to learn that.

[Gramul]

The big difference here being that FFXIV is actually now a good game and those games you listed are not and were not.

OH NO!
OBJECTIVE OPINIONS! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

[Instrumentality]

OH NO!
OBJECTIVE OPINIONS! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

They were not good games. Sorry this is a struggle for you to accept.

[Devils_Lawyer]

Problem is that everyone likes different things, some like story, some like gear, minigames, crafting/gathering etc.

And when you try to constantly add content to all different parts you end up adding a little bit to each one instead of a massive content boost for one and leave everything else on a hold.

So for people whose only purpose or enjoyment is to get the next level of gear then yes they will get bored rather quickly and most likely unsub until the stuff they enjoy gets more content.

[Gramul]

They were not good games. Sorry this is a struggle for you to accept.

I'm not in the mood for this type of poppycock at the moment so I hope you don't mind if I just drop the old link here:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

[Instrumentality]

I'm not in the mood for this type of poppycock at the moment so I hope you don't mind if I just drop the old link here:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

Sorry you're unable to accept the validity of my statement.

MMOs being bad is only a minor impediment to people enjoying those games. When the enjoyment of an MMO comes because of the players and in spite of the game, the game is bad. The players can be amazing and cool and people you want to spend the next five years playing games with and how you derive all of your enjoyment from the game.

That doesn't make the game good.

[Cakekizy]

Sorry you're unable to accept the validity of my statement.

MMOs being bad is only a minor impediment to people enjoying those games. When the enjoyment of an MMO comes because of the players and in spite of the game, the game is bad. The players can be amazing and cool and people you want to spend the next five years playing games with and how you derive all of your enjoyment from the game.

That doesn't make the game good.

Saying the games are bad is a subjective judgment, also known as an opinion, not a fact.

[NadienKirisame]

Nah, they're definitely bad.

Bad to you which is an opinion no matter how much you think that what you say is a fact it is not sorry... I know it is hard for you to take that your opinion is just that an opinion but it is...
You humans always thinking that what you say is right and thinking anything else is wrong... no wonder you keep wanting to fight with each other and you will never know peace... haha.

The cat is bemused =-.-=

[Gramul]

Sorry you're unable to accept the validity of my statement.

MMOs being bad is only a minor impediment to people enjoying those games. When the enjoyment of an MMO comes because of the players and in spite of the game, the game is bad. The players can be amazing and cool and people you want to spend the next five years playing games with and how you derive all of your enjoyment from the game.

That doesn't make the game good.

Indeed? Well let's see your proof then Mr. Wright.

[Instrumentality]

Indeed? Well let's see your proof then Mr. Wright.

One of EQ's producer and one of its lead designers was Brad McQuaid in its defining years.

QED.