I sure hope HW is not going to be more armor grind treadmill!

[Soralis]

you can play triple triad, chocobo racing, breeding, leveling, roleplaying, screenshot collecting, doing your logs, chatting with people, pvping ^_^, really a lot of things. not so much games can offer that today. when hw starts i am going slowly with everything, will probably be the last one to reach end game, i didn't even completed turn 8 coil nor did i kill shiva....

[kyuven]

OP

That's just what people do with games. When you rush content and run out of things to do, you get bored and leave.
There's enough to keep people interested, but some people just aren't going to be intrigued by that.
Not everyone cares enough to take advantage of everything a game throws at them. And everyone has different goals.
Me, for example, I like "completing" games, but I also don't necessarily like to rush. "Grinding gear" isn't my concern so much as defeating content. But not everyone thinks like that. Many people don't like raiding, and in big "social" FCs with high turnover, that behavior is to be expected.
And it's already more than armor grinding.
You have: Content to defeat.
Triple Triad
Chocobo breeding/racing
Moogle Mail Quests
Leveling other classes
Decorating your house
And more.

[Felis]

All what you would need is the gear from the highest 3.0 tome to finish the 3.x stories.
Like the gear from the highest 2.0 tomes (ilevel 90 myth gear) is enough to finish the 2.x story

Everything else will be just for glamour or to overgear content outside of Alexander.

[Lemuria]

That's just what people do with games. When you rush content and run out of things to do, you get bored and leave.

What people seem to constantly misunderstand, or perhaps ignore to suit their arguments, is that you can still design content which is designed to be played over and over while still keeping things fresh. There have been countless examples of this, from City of Heroes' quest creator to randomly generated dungeons.

It's really sad that in this day and age, where we have access to some of the finest examples in games, people still consider this archaic design philosophy acceptable. Or, in the worst case scenario, consider it the norm.

The fact that most of the examples you listed are disincentivized only strengthens the argument.

[kyuven]

What people seem to constantly misunderstand, or perhaps ignore to suit their arguments, is that you can still design content which is designed to be played over and over while still keeping things fresh. There have been countless examples of this, from City of Heroes' quest creator to randomly generated dungeons.

Yyyyyeah um CoH's mission creator was abused by making the exact same types of maps with the exact same enemies and just AOEing them. Some people tried interesting approaches, but they all went out the window when people started using it as a create-a-farm to get more EXP.
And randomly generated dungeons only have so many variations before you get to see them all. SWTOR and GW2 both introduced RNG dungeons, but they were really just little "sequences" that would randomly appear each time you entered.
All of those games eventually ran into the same problem: There was no "meat" to the RNG and "procedurally generated dungeons" as you were still expected to repeat them, and there was only a finite number of "loadouts."
Cryptic, the original creators of CoH, took a stab at it again with Star Trek Online and Neverwinter's custom story creation, with heavy restrictions on rewards (to the point almost EVERY player made quest in Neverwinter featured the creator BEGGING players to not vote them down because of the loot quality, as they had no control over that) but again, there's only so much you can do with that. The rewards became SO piddling that the only incentive is a daily reward or if you just like doing them.
Which created another problem in that many players aren't very...creative...and the systems always had limitations (such as STO's vehement stance that you couldn't use actual Star Trek characters, leading to some of them reading like really bad and really boring fanfics about "Riker's little brother" or "John Luke Pickerd". There was a creative one involving Reg Barclay's daughter and holodeck malfunctions, but that was the exception and not the rule.)
And I don't really see how the things i listed are "disincentivized." If anything there's EXTRA incentive to do them as they all have unique titles, achievements, and rewards.

[Hypie]

Well then i would be a perfect example off your "quitting player" What matters for me the most is the story...i want to know the story i want to enjoy it. And at the end of the story its like you finished a book (for me). So put aside that book and wait for the next one of that series (Patch). I give a damn about PvP no i detest Pvp cuz it ruined much for me in Warcraft, i'm not a hoarder who needs a house with all that glamour stuff without any practical use...

Crafting is fine but you get the Best stuff in Raids. And i dont even care about Gear. Only so much i can finish the Story And thats why i can enjoy multiple MMO's by the Way xD

[nekuxdesu]

Sorry
I quite disliked gw2 and being stuck at the same spot for over a year

But are you really telling me you dont get a great feeling when you see your dps jump up a few points from new gear you worked hard on?
To those that havent even truly dabbled in DoH/DoL, you're kind of pathetic. It's like buying a pepperoni pizza but not eating the pepperoni and crust

[Moonleg]

To those that havent even truly dabbled in DoH/DoL, you're kind of pathetic.

Calling others pathetic REALLY doesn't make people read your post and go, "Oh, how I have played this game completely wrong! Neku is SO RIGHT!"

[Anty]

i totally agree with the OP, though i wonder why people defend this fast vertical progression so badly. A more balanced, slower progression with wider stat choices etc.
- not just vanity - is a better way to go imo.

the BIS is one choice, and one choice only, how boring is that.
If you are no raider then there is no real choice. there is only the ex grinding.

I know that this game is extremely vertical. Still it would be nice to have maybe 5-6 ways parallel to get gear, also slightly different gear.

The highest ilvl in pvp should be at least like 120 (if the highest is 130) to give the people more incentive to do it, otherwise it is like now. empty, nobody does it Q times take 3 hrs or more - never waited longer lol. So that is development time/money gone to waste. (ofc the ilvl isnt the only reason why, but it is part of it).


Crafting also should be a bit less far behind, and due to the fast updates and outdating of gear, it also should be more affordable in general.
I dont even bother buying anything for months now since it really is a waste of money.
As soon as you buy it its basicly outdated. You can ofc grind materia like crazy or /and buy it for a lot of gil and make it a decent piece... but then again... the next update is right around the corner, so no need to bother.

Daily and beastmen quests in general could also be an extra option to get decent gear.
The game indeed has quite some content, but most is worthless or vanity only...
90% of the game is vanity.... and every update increases the vanity count...
- yet the inventory doenst increase -

not sure if they will but they should introduce higher ilvl versions of older dungeons too, to make them worth playing, with better loot etc. so they have them to lvl up, gear up for newer players , and offer better gear and more challenge to higher lvl players.

[Millerna]

Lmao how or why would a producer of their own mmo be okay with people unsubbing? That is kind of counter productive.

Because those people resub within a couple of months, and building enough content to keep those type of players subbed for those extra couple of months it going to be way more costly than missing a couple of months of sub fee...