I sure hope HW is not going to be more armor grind treadmill!

[XgungraveX]

... and thats it!

This is what happens when your so called MMORPG is nothing more then a "farm gear / wait for patch with better gear / farm gear" loot game is. This applys to all themepark MMO´s. Most people dont come into the game to seek adventure and friendship, they come to get the best items, no matter what and then they leave. The days where you could really breath the virtual world are long long gone. Just accept the game for what it is, it will be much less painfull this way.

is that what all mmos are tho you kill monsters to get gear and you kill bigger monsters to get better gear process just repeats...

[Callinon]

is that what all mmos are tho you kill monsters to get gear and you kill bigger monsters to get better gear process just repeats...

Yeah, that's what an MMO is.

I'm afraid those of us who've been playing MMOs for a long time got over the "Wow look at this huge world O.O" and "Wow, there are people here from all over the world" a while ago. Now it's "Cool game, let's play it."

[Asmodaeus]

is that what all mmos are tho you kill monsters to get gear and you kill bigger monsters to get better gear process just repeats...

To some extend sure, but if you compare the typical theme park MMO´s to older stuff like Everquest, FF11, SWG or Daoc you can see a big difference. The process in obtaining those items is nothing of worth in the end if all what it takes is to spam the duty finder with random people you will never see again (just speaking for the majority of people). Its the same with lots of FC´s. A few leet people get together to finish the stuff which brings the items. You cant really blame them, since the 8 man tuned stuff requires you to play ace like and leave the poor newbs (which might be nice people) in the dust. A lot of these groups dont care for each other and when they finally get the last piece of gear there is nothing that will hold them in the game, thats why they leave.

What I want to say is, the only thing that keeps players hooked for the long run in an MMO are the people they play with. Items dont matter in the end.
You wont look back and say "It was so nice getting that belt from Dungeon X after 8 weeks of farming!", but you will look back and remember fondly of that stupid Bard who startet dancing in the middle of an AOE which never hit him while others tried to dodge and failed.


And unfortunately FFXIV is one of the most antisocial/anonymous MMORPG`s I´ve ever played. Maybe that is why there is such a huge shift in the playerbase. It´s also the same with other theme park´s. Funny enough, in all the old ass MMORPG´s I´ve played this never happend. And I dont mean that as rant, I know what FFXIV is (not my definition of MMORPG) and I treat it just like that.

[Instrumentality]

To some extend sure, but if you compare the typical theme park MMO´s to older stuff like Everquest, FF11, SWG or Daoc you can see a big difference.

The big difference here being that FFXIV is actually now a good game and those games you listed are not and were not. I played EQ for seven actual years. It was terrible and the only reason I kept logging in after the release of WoW was because I had friends who played that I'd basically grown up with.

And the communities in EQ and games like it were extremely awful. Like make everyone in this game look like saints awful. I remember how it was on all the PVP servers where everyone that wasn't your guild/race was the enemy and how you could never, ever let your guard down. XI had no pvp so maybe it was different, but I've heard nothing but how it was just like EQ except Final Fantasy (and therefore terrible).

tl;dr If the only reason you log in to play a game is because of the people you play with then you should find a different game to play. It took me ages to learn that.

[Gramul]

The big difference here being that FFXIV is actually now a good game and those games you listed are not and were not.

OH NO!
OBJECTIVE OPINIONS! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

[Instrumentality]

OH NO!
OBJECTIVE OPINIONS! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

They were not good games. Sorry this is a struggle for you to accept.

[Devils_Lawyer]

Problem is that everyone likes different things, some like story, some like gear, minigames, crafting/gathering etc.

And when you try to constantly add content to all different parts you end up adding a little bit to each one instead of a massive content boost for one and leave everything else on a hold.

So for people whose only purpose or enjoyment is to get the next level of gear then yes they will get bored rather quickly and most likely unsub until the stuff they enjoy gets more content.

[Gramul]

They were not good games. Sorry this is a struggle for you to accept.

I'm not in the mood for this type of poppycock at the moment so I hope you don't mind if I just drop the old link here:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

[Instrumentality]

I'm not in the mood for this type of poppycock at the moment so I hope you don't mind if I just drop the old link here:

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

Sorry you're unable to accept the validity of my statement.

MMOs being bad is only a minor impediment to people enjoying those games. When the enjoyment of an MMO comes because of the players and in spite of the game, the game is bad. The players can be amazing and cool and people you want to spend the next five years playing games with and how you derive all of your enjoyment from the game.

That doesn't make the game good.

[Sapphic]

To some extend sure, but if you compare the typical theme park MMO´s to older stuff like Everquest, FF11, SWG or Daoc you can see a big difference.

Everquest and FFXI where ALL about the gear. Everquest was all about getting better and better gear to allow you to raid to also get better gear. So was FFXI, only difference is you got numerous sets for gear swaps to optimize, until an expansion or new content dropped then you would start anew. Both of those are vertical. SWG and DaoC where totally different as the main end game of those 2 was PVP. Not PVE. So the ability to get players to the same level of gear was a main focus so PVP wasn't inaccessible for a protracted period of time.