Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Sylkis]

That doesn't meant that there isn't a best set, it just means that you're not skilled enough to use the best set at its full potential.

If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

It's like having triple weakness, healers are gonna hate you

[Gilthas]

If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

It's like having triple weakness, healers are gonna hate you

Not really, no. It just means that only 1% of the population is good enough to use the best gear.

[SDaemon]

If 99% of the population can't and whenever someone gets flamed for dying in that gear, BiS loses its meaning no?

99% of the population can't what?

BiS doesn't lose its meaning. It is BiS for a reason, whether you make use of it or not is up to your individual skill level. In this "horizontal" definition they are using BiS will be based, not on your optimal stats universally, but rather the optimal stats/bonuses/procs different pieces of gear provide for individual fights.

[Sylkis]

Not really, no. It just means that only 1% of the population is good enough to use the best gear.

So if 99% of the population don't have a BiS, isn't that what horizontal wants to achieve?

[Gilthas]

So if 99% of the population don't have a BiS, isn't that what horizontal wants to achieve?

They do have a BiS, they're just not skilled enough to use it to its fullest extent.

And if the aim of horizontal progression is having 99% of the playerbase not have BiS gear, horizontal progression should be stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

They do have a BiS, they're just not skilled enough to use it to its fullest extent.

And if the aim of horizontal progression is having 99% of the playerbase not have BiS gear, horizontal progression should be stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

So basicly your saying that Gear > Skill? I suppose, but yes. Horizontal Progression would probably mean that they might not have BiS for different encounters, however what they will have is unique playstyles, which makes them better skillfully. Skill can go over gear if its wieldy enough.

[SuzakuCMX]

There's going to be a BiS either way. I'd like vertical to cap and then horizontal from there on, but it's sort of hard to imagine what horizontal progression would be like in this game.

I'd prefer horizontal though because I can customize my play better since I'm not really about optimal play as much as having fun.

[Dhex]

The problem with the current gear progression is this; it changes nothing about the game meta for current content, invalidates old content, and causes "dead" zones that they have to shoehorn new incentives/requirements into post-release to keep players going back.

Every Job plays exactly the same as the instant you dinged 50 - regardless of item level. There is no "play-style", no significant change, and no growth beyond "more of the same" even as you progress through the item levels and that is pretty boring in my opinion.

FFXIV isn't just Vertical growth it's Verticle Linear growth and changes nothing about the game's meta.

The current "treadmill" is shortsighted. What happens to older "endgame" once the majority of players have moved on and the content no longer has incentives for them? It becomes a dead space - wasted data.

I worry about how quickly content has atrophied - this is a problem that will continue to effect the game for it's entire life cycle. Depth is important.

What we're talking about here isn't just "Do we want X method of gear?" it's a fundamental problem with the core model of the game. Character progression needs a lot more depth. Content needs to remain relevant longer. Materia, Gear, and Stats need to be a lot more dynamic than they are currently or the game will (and does) get stale.

FFXIV is a Roleplaying game - it needs to evolve and add some depth and meat to it's core systems.

Suggestions:

FFXI - Direct Character Growth & Customization Merit Point System

WoW - Gear Growth & Magical Enhancement Enchants

TL2 - Gems (Materia System +1) Socketables


Peh "horizontal" or "vertical" how about we talk about the systems lack of overall depth instead?

Meaningful character growth please.

[Gilthas]

So basicly your saying that Gear > Skill?

*rolls eyes*

BiS means that said piece of gear is the best gear for that slot. It has zero to do with player skill. Not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

In a perfect world, Horizontal progression would mean that you had several options to reach the same peak performance. In reality there is always a best set for everything.

I worry about how quickly content has atrophied - this is a problem that will continue to effect the game for it's entire life cycle. Depth is important.

There's always two sides of that story. Yes, content in FFXI was relevant far longer than it is in FFXIV, but do we really want to go back to doing Dynamis/Kings for years? This is more an issue for new players than it is for the old ones. I for one would be happy to never see Garuda Ex ever again.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

*rolls eyes*

BiS means that said piece of gear is the best gear for that slot. It has zero to do with player skill. Not sure why this concept is so hard for people to understand.

In a perfect world, Horizontal progression would mean that you had several options to reach the same peak performance. In reality there is always a best set for everything.



There's always two sides of that story. Yes, content in FFXI was relevant far longer than it is in FFXIV, but do we really want to go back to doing Dynamis/Kings for years? This is more an issue for new players than it is for the old ones. I for one would be happy to never see Garuda Ex ever again.

Yeah, I'm saying that there are encounters, and bosses where something will be BiS, then another place where it won't be. Doesn't mean it still won't be a bad piece of gear.

For example: If I was fighting 3 creatures, X% chance to proc X when attacked would be 3 times better. However 1v1 with a boss it won't be as good but will still be a good item. However the other parts of the item are still good as well. So its not bad.