DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Gilthas]

You seem to have missed the point. I haven't really seen any PvP drama inside PvP.

Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

[Tiggy]

Huh?? I've never seen more petty smack talk in this game in places other than raids.

Honestly, Duty Finder is worse and more often than not it's not from the better players in my experience.

[Nalien]

Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

Player verses Player is already possible in the open world, it's called Triple Triad. How many times have you seen people talking smack over Triple Triad? Ever?

Though really, lets stop pretending that the elitist attitude from raids doesn't leak out of instances and into Mor Dhona. I've seen plenty of Party Finder groups presumably gone wrong erupt into argument in Mor Dhona. I've seen plenty of (presumably) "notoriously bad" players shouting at each other.

I also don't really see how it would change if there was something like a PvPr requirement. People simply wouldn't be able to challenge you if you don't PvP. That pretty much makes Duels something solely for PvPers.

[kpxmanifesto]

Well, good for you I guess. My point is still the same: people don't see raid drama in the open world because raids are contained within raids. Same thing is true for PvP. That would change if PvP became possible in the open world.

To be honest, I see a lot of people in Revenant's Toll bad-mouthing each other about PF groups. For example people shout: "Don't join so and so's clear party because they ain't gonna clear anything." You see drama like this all the time.

A lot of smack talk happens in open world PVE too. People pull S ranks and A ranks too early or even reset them, and as a result there's a whole cacophony of drama.

[Nalien]

Oh, can't believe I didn't remember this sooner; Hunts.

Forget raid drama, I've seen enough "early pull" crap to last me a lifetime.

A lot of smack talk happens in open world PVE too. People pull S ranks and A ranks too early or even reset them, and as a result there's a whole cacophony of drama.

Edit that in just as I posted D:

Guess Hunts should be removed because of a few bad apples, since that seems to be the mentality against adding Duels (despite all the failsafes we've suggested~). Better not add those Floating Islands in 3.1, imagine all the FC drama they're going to causes as well.

[Alacran]

The only reason this game is getting more popular is because it is pve focused when alot of people are tired of mmo's being a hybrid of pve/pvp that throws balanced out of whack and causes a certain company to completely change around all jobs/classes every 6 months because of balance issues. Say no to /duels in this game. FF should not be another forum for e-peen cheaters to try to brow beat superiority and dominance into the other 99% of the players who enjoy the game as a pve oriented game. Please do not add pvp to FF 14 more then it already has.

That is what I see as the real issue here. Far to many are fighting about the inclusion of PvP... We are are asking for duels.





Dueling is not new to the series, any fan knows this. Dueling is part of the local color of a fantasy setting, that I believe can only help in the immersion of the game.

[Gilthas]

Guess Hunts should be removed because of a few bad apples, since that seems to be the mentality against adding Duels (despite all the failsafes we've suggested~). Better not add those Floating Islands in 3.1, imagine all the FC drama they're going to causes as well.

Actually, I would be happy if crap like Hunts had never been added to the game, but that's a tale for another day.

Arguments like "it doesn't matter if this causes drama, because other stuff already causes drama" isn't really a good argument.

[Nalien]

Arguments like "it doesn't matter if this causes drama, because other stuff already causes drama" isn't really a good argument.

Good thing that isn't my argument.

My argument is that we shouldn't dismiss content because some people are going to be dicks. If we did, we wouldn't have any content. This is an MMO, some people are going to be dicks, if "we can't have that because some people are dicks" was a rational argument MMOs simply wouldn't exist.

This is true for Raids. It's true for Hunts. It's true for crafting and the in-game economy. And yes, it's true for PvP. The only issue here is that, when people are dicks in PvE, people call them out as such, but when people are dicks in PvP (and currently they're not), people go "PvPers are bad! We shouldn't have PvP!". It's blindly hypocritical, just like the whole nonsense about Duels somehow causing lag when Treasure Maps don't already. The whole "Duels will cause drama" thing is just another vain attempt at people who don't PvP trying to justify not having PvP in the game. We get it, you all don't like PvP, that is exactly why we're suggesting Duels in such a way that it wouldn't affect you. None of us who actually PvP care for Duels for e-peen, as you lot have suggested. None of us who actually PvP even care to challenge non-PvPers. The whole argument hinges on some hypothetical douchbags we've seen zero evidence of in game, even if you all want to pretend that they'd suddenly spawn in were Duels added, please do explain how they'd go about upsetting you if Duels were introduced in such a way as we've suggested throughout this thread?

[Tiggy]

That is what I see as the real issue here. Far to many are fighting about the inclusion of PvP... We are are asking for duels.





Dueling is not new to the series, any fan knows this. Dueling is part of the local color of a fantasy settings, that I believe can only help in the immersion of the game.

That's a cutscene and a boss fight...not dueling and not even close to what's suggested here. That's REALLY stretching it.

[Nalien]

That's a cutscene and a boss fight...not dueling and not even close to what's suggested here. That's REALLY stretching it.

How about that time in the MSQ where Hoary Boulder literally challenged us to a duel?

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

Still a boss fight, but the point is that the precedent has been set in the MSQ. People Duel in Eorzea.

The only real reason you all seem to have against Duels seems to be the "drama" it would cause, ignoring all the suggestions we've presented to avoid that, but where is the precedent for that? Where are the people aggressively challenging others to Triple Triad matches and creating drama over that? Where were the people demanding others challenge them in Wolves' Den? Where are the dickish PvP players who'd create so much trouble if Duels were introduced? All I've seen in PvP is fairly nice and forgiving players, something I certainly cannot say about my average World of Darkness groups.

Your precedent seems entirely based on other MMOs, which you're all to quick to point out are different because FFXIV is more PvE focused. Doesn't the fact that it is more PvE focused mean there are less of these unwanted individuals anyway? Just because they add Duels doesn't suddenly mean that the majority of the player base, who haven't touched PvP at all, are going to suddenly be challenging everyone they meet and flinging mud when someone rejects a challenge. Never mind the fact that we've already suggested Duels in such a way that PvEers can easily avoid getting challenges in the first place.