Are the Twelve Primals too?

[Duuude007]

The aether used by Louisoux at Carteneau wasn't garnered from "the Twelve" or Dalamud (if this was not your meaning, it wasn't made clear), it was channeled via Tupsimati, and the prayer from the thousands wishing for salvation.

I wasn't arguing this, but the intent was to summon the might of The Twelve to seal Bahamut in a new dalamud-esque prison. It failed. the purpose of alllll that aether was aborted, and therefore Louisiox changed strategy. He took all that aether that was composing the Twelve, now wasted and floating above him, and was able to transform into the primal. After which he was enthralled.

The idea of Phoenix didn't come from Bahamut--Louisoux WAS Phoenix before even approaching Bahamut (Glowstick Louie, if you will, = Phoenix), he said himself that he became phoenix, an ancient symbol of rebirth.

Yes, he did become it. That doesn't mean it is notably different process from Iceheart's transformation. And while I will concede the point about rebirth intent for Eorzea, whether he was aware of an actual Phoenix being of the past is 'head canon' as you put it, especially if nobody else knew. Once you are said being, it makes sense that you are aware of your ancient existence, lol...

He became a symbol of rebirth (one that he already had knowledge of)---

You state this as a fact, where does it say this? Other primals distinctly had specific entities of the past from which to draw the memory, and the form, of the primals, and with the existence of Phoenix down feathers in Eorzea, you cannot discount that such a being did exist, even if long forgotten. As the twins detailed.

because he wished the warped realm to recover from the chaos that had befallen it. And this is exactly what happened when Louisoux returned his aether to the land,

As I said above, I am not arguing this.

despite Bahamut snatching a good portion of it up in an attempt to maintain his corporeal form..

This quoted snippet above seems to be conjecture of your's, wasn't it simply absorbed by him when Louisoix surrendered the aether of which he was composed? We know that when this occurred, the healing of the planet was interrupted, the Allag tech draining the air around them of the aether, and corrupting the clean aether where the hulks had pierced the planet. The remaining aether between Louisiox and Bahamut was concentrated enough that when Bahamut's broken body was pushed underground , Louisiox was close enough to be drawn in with him.


Based on some additional information brought to light, I believe that the birth of the primal was in the form of a sword of aether, and when it coalesced around Louisiox, he was granted the gift of immortality and rebirth.

We know that he was transformed, and after a great deal of aether from Bahamut was released, he released his own. This gave Bahamut the opportunity to enthrall him, but had no real basis on his own survival. The allag machina were to blame for that.

As Louisiox said, "As you can see I did not perish". No death, no self rebirth. Merely enthralled as a primal.

We know that Bahamut was incapacitated and underground because of the coils. For 5 years all of this was kept hidden from the people of Eorzea.

We know that Bahamut was repaired enough to regain sufficient consciousness to shake the world, 5 years after the Battle of Cartenau. As seen in the End of an Era cutscenes. Until that point, even with the amnesia dispelled, nobody knew what happened to Bahamut, and we were forced to investigate corrupted aether to confirm Urianger's suspicions.

We know that when Lahabrea was defeated, the apparent amnesia about the WoL's deeds in the Battle of Cartenau was resolved, and the amnesia was resolved even earlier for Cid. Yet memory of the being Phoenix remained nonexistant. Did Louisiox somehow know of a being the rest of Eorzea (even his scions) did not and still do not know? Did such a being exist in present-day history books at all prior to Bahamut's transformation to primal? We cannot say. What we can confidently say, however, is that if he did not remember such a being, Bahamut was certainly old enough to remember it. Which would satisfy the 'belief in a being + aether' rule we are used to.

"I became Phoenix" is a statement lacking context. If nobody remembers Phoenix, the idea of 'rebirth' without knowledge of the former entity flies in the face of how other primals are created in Eorzea...
Unless... his unusual proximity to Bahamut (being inside the elder primal) allowed his wishes to draw upon an actual ancient being of Bahamut's past. Whether it was of Bahamut's cognitive interest or not. And once he became the primal, he would be aware of its existence, just as the twins were, albeit surprised. Which differs drastically to the global awareness of WoL, and acceptance that it is you- When that amnesia was resolved, everyone knew the WoL. Nobody knows where Phoenix came from, and yet the twins acknowledge that it

I still have many questions, but saying I am contradicting canon... that was never my intent. That is why I hate using the word 'fact' without supporting evidence.