Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Jyskal]

Woah there, interesting how this snowballed into a debate I didn't meant for it to lol. Lemme reinstate my points. I'm saying that SE should give an element of challenge every patch by probably introducing ONE dungeon which poses more of a challenge than the rest which are released in the same patch. They don't have to be a raid difficulty kinda dungeon but I'm saying that with that it could keep the game fresh every time a patch is introduced. I personally am a big fan of the story and I understand why they would want to nerf Steps of Faith being a story trial. However, it didn't need to be done that heavily. Why I say this is because it sort of defeats that enjoyment or thrill of the trial by tweaking almost everything it has to offer.

And with regards to people's comments about me not having the other Savage Coil achievements, this is by no means similar to what I'm saying. That is a challenge, yes but it also requires a decent group to be put together. What I'm suggesting is something which could be done for DF (if you get what I'm trying to say here). Having a challenging element every patch is certainly interesting and I suppose sort of allow all player bases to look forward to. I know extreme primals are a challenge but I don't know, to me, it feels like there's more that could be done in that aspect. I'm just voicing out my personal opinion and I'm in no way trying to make this game seem more "elitist" as some of you might think. I actually applaud SE for being so considerate towards their casual player base as well and I think not many companies do that with their games.

[Skeith-Adeline]

Do some Savage Coil. Apparently still more challenging than Final Coil even with dramatic out gearing.

I do agree that all content shouldn't be nerfed through, literal nerfs and echo.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Why not add a contested dungeon, with wandering NPCs and wandering bosses and interesting loot mechanics? The deeper you go into the dungeon the harder it gets, the more mobs randomly spawn and the more mistakes you can make. The first part of the dungeon can be casual. Deeper you get the harder-core it gets.

Contested Dungeons are brutally hard for people who are used to "studying" for fights, because so many different things can happen in the instances. Especially ones where players can re-arrange the dungeon or set traps to other players.

A dungeon doesn't have to be one difficulty. It can get more and more difficult the deeper you enter it. Of course, players would be locked out of loot from the dungeon, however the previous loot from the first parts should greatly help them. You can even have the bosses drop "set" pieces.

First Tiers:
Feet, Gloves, Legs.

Second Tier:
Weapons, Helmets, Waist

Third Tier:
Chest Plates (low chance to drop.), Jewelry

Fourth Tier:
Chest Plates (100% Chance.), Box with any piece of jewelry or armor from the dungeon.


Disciple of War
Set Bonuses:
2 (+50 Vitality, Strength)
4 (10% Critical Chance)
8 (10% Critical Bonus)
10 (10% Damage Reduction to this dungeon only.)
12 (10% Bonus damage to this dungeon only.)

Disciple of Magic
Set Bonuses
2 (+50 Vitality, +50 Wisdom, Intelligence)
4 (10% Critical Chance)
8 (20% Extra Damage on DOTs/Extra Healing on HOTs)
10 (10% Damage Reduction to this dungeon only.)
12 (10% Bonus damage to this dungeon only.)

Every piece of loot of the dungeon would have this effect on it.

Body Pulling, Respawning Mobs!, Training, Waiting for Bosses, Contesting Bosses, Getting through encounters, and Local (Server only) Gameplay =), No Duty Finder!

[kyuven]

I'm saying that SE should give an element of challenge every patch by probably introducing ONE dungeon which poses more of a challenge than the rest which are released in the same patch.

2.1: EX primals (Yes, they count, they were actually difficult to beat at one point.)
2.2: SCOB
2.3: Savage SCOB
2.4: FCOB
2.5: Odin
2.5 pt. 2: SoF

So yeah they DID add challenging content in each and every patch, and nerfed it in time for the next wave because people are going to be doing the next wave and not the previous.
The only sort-of-exception is 2.5, which is what everyone is complaining about. With coil finished in 2.4, there wasn't really much left to add, and Odin had the issue of not having rewards other than glamour. Thus 2.5 was kind of a downer in terms of challenge, but they still added content that could be considered challenging.

Also Echo will always be added to difficult content. It's there to make it easier for new players to progress, and can be clicked off if you really want your challenge.

[Skeith-Adeline]

2.5 didn't add anything with challenge lol. Odin is piteous excuse of difficulty and SoF was only difficult to persons without fingers.

[ShaneDawn]

The challenge is months back, when the content was unnerfed by echo, mechanic changes and over-gearing. Apparently everything needs to be cleared by everyone, so we will have everything degraded to the weakest player's ability so they can do their hardcore end-game content too.

[kyuven]

2.5 didn't add anything with challenge lol. Odin is piteous excuse of difficulty and SoF was only difficult to persons without fingers.

The failure rates were and are still higher than any of the other content added during those periods to the point SE felt the need to nerf SoF.
Just because it's not challenging for you doesn't mean it's not challenging for others.

Also I even admitted that 2.5 was "thin" compared to other patches.

EDIT: Oh, and did anyone notice they haven't actually "Nerfed" FCOB the way they nerfed SCOB and BCOB? They added Echo, sure, but again it doesn't take away from the actual challenge of the content. Since, again, if you want the challenge, just click it off.

[Kallera]

The failure rates were and are still higher than any of the other content added during those periods to the point SE felt the need to nerf SoF.
Just because it's not challenging for you doesn't mean it's not challenging for others.

Also I even admitted that 2.5 was "thin" compared to other patches.

Also consider that an expansion is coming, with far more content than what is going to be in a version update. Its gearing up for a big event, and they want as many people in on it as they can.

[Dualblade]

The easiest way they'll ever be able to have future content be similar to SoF pre-nerf is to make sure they have some sort of reward(s) that will keep players coming back. That was the biggest problem here and hopefully will be something that they'll start thinking about with Heavensward content.

[Ibi]

IF you can obtain +i110 gear topped off with %20 echo, which no one is going to want to take off it just becomes regular content with no special challenge.

Since you're saying i110 and 20% echo, this is presumably about SCoB or lower. You may find that not to be a special challenge, but go solo queue for it in DF a few times and see how it's going for any random selection of the player base.

And what's worst is that out of 13 turns, you technically only need to do three of them now, making the other ten completely obsolete. What's the point of having progression content if you don't have to do all the turns to actually progress.

BCoB hasn't been progression content since March 2014. SCoB hasn't been progression content since October 2014. Even for FCoB, some jobs will find it hard to simultaneously meet the item level and accuracy requirements for T13 without getting at least some Dreadwyrm from the other turns.

They've even done the same with extremes. At the very least you should beat the previous ex primal before moving on to the next.

Unless I missed a very recent change, you still have to beat Leviathan and Moogle to access Ramuh, and still have to beat Ramuh to access Shiva.

People who do enjoy difficult/challenging content deserve variety

I agree with this in principle, and personally hope Heavensward will provide greater variety, but it's never going to be economical for a developer to put an overwhemling percentage of their resources into activites that the majority of their player base will never see.

You're going to get considerably more content with a low bar of entry because that lets the most people engage in it. Especially because most of the people who enjoy the difficult content will likely also engage in that content when they're not tackling the challenging stuff.

content that only last for 2 months before gradually getting nerfed to the point where it just becomes another Battle on the Bridge, Dragon's Neck, or a lvl 50 dungeon boss fight...

What actually challenging content has had any significant nerf within two months of its release?